When is Bush going to shut down the southern border ???

[Epidemic]

Poor is an illusion in the USA (generally speaking) Our poor live better than the middle class of most nations.

Middle class make plenty of money if they actually put it to work and do not live for today.

My old man lived a middle class existence on a line technicians wage. We lived extremely frugal lives. Mom given 50 bucks a week (equal to probably 150 today) to feed and cloth a family of 4. We drove old cars and repaired them when they failed, we ate alot of beans, and did not take vacations. Every raise possible was rolled into investments like bonds and a few higher risk items. We did not have multiple phone lines, go out dinner , new car bills, cable, vacations, our clothes were hand me downs and consignment shop and christmas was frugal as well. My old man put away enough money to retire early and lives quite well.

Now I live a little higher life and make about the same equivelent money perhaps a bit more and it appears as if I am unable to put money away. But when I look at our budget I find that we piss away quite a bit of money. Through most of the USA I think a household income of 50 to 60 grand is enough to put away money at a good clip if you are willing to coupon clip, and eat beans a few nights a week and drive a car without a mortgage.

[washe]

Well here is some raw data:

The starting wage for a common worker is:
10 x 7 days = 70 (where most people work 10 hrs per day 5 days per week)
700 x 4 weeks = 280
2800 x 12 months = 3360
Plus another income that gives the company we can rought it up to $4,000 per year.

Where an starting Enginieer gets:

30 x 7 = 210
210 x 4 = 840
840 x 12 = $10080

Of course as people progress get more wage, but most people I know including myself barely touches the $15000 per year. We are considered in the medium wage class

BTW all this before Tax....

[Epidemic]

It is difficult to measure that against american wage.

Obviously that would appear low when compared with american wage. however one would need to account for cost of living to determine how low that wage is.

But even if you say that people cross the rio-grande illegally to make a better life, the end result is ultimately bad.

I believe their is a need for immigrant workers in the USA, however they are exploited due to their status. Closing borders to illegals will have as a byproduct a similar increase in legal immigration thereby giving the immigrant worker legal status, giving the immigrant support of the law in fair wages, and ultimately raising the wage to proper market value, while simultaniously allowing the immigrant worker to pay taxes to support a portion of their childrens schooling and other government services.

For all the taxes mexico charges what services do they give?

Why is there not a revolution, legal, political or otherwise in mexico to correct the corruption. Obviously the country is going nowhere fast. Somewhere on the order of 1 to 3% leaves the country every year. That is freaky.

You know mexico fights so hard to keep the exodus flowing freely because it is the only way they can stay in power. If those people were forced to stay there would be a revolution. don't you think?

[Ed_S]

Hmmm... well, I fail to see a connection between conditions in another country and our inability to control a border! Seperate issues, IMO.

Their conditions are their problem. None of our business.
Protecting our border is our problem.
We need to deal with OUR problem, let them deal with their own!

IMO, it should be impossible for anyone of any race or nationality, including U.S. residents, to enter this country w/o at least passing through customs. Not south, not north, east, west, by sea or by air.
Those borders should be secured by whatever means necessary. If a simple chain link fence is enough, so be it. But if not...

It appears that all but the southern border are secure enough, thus the attention is drawn there. I've not heard of mass crossings of the northern border!
The southern border is obviously the weak point right now, and needs reinforced - as I said, by whatever means necessary! Up to and including lethal force, mining the border, whatever.

Who knows, we may have similar problems to the north at some future time. Seriously doubt it, but if so it should be dealt with similarly.

Too many people seemed too worried about WHY people cross - I say it just doesn't matter. Put it this way, if you come into my home uninvited you risk death - I don't care and won't ask WHY you're here!! Same principle.

[Chuckiechan]

I guess I wouldn't feel so bad if I felt the Mexico was on the road to recovery, but it isn't.

It really needs a major change for the benefit of its citizens, peaceful or not.

[washe]

I can said its taking the steps to build the road to recovery, as I said before people is becoming more active on the desicion that the goverment dispose.

Next elections for president will be interesting, none of the current possible candidates will have an easy time to get voted.