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Thread: Christians

  1. #101
    BBA
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    Quote Originally Posted by originel
    Spirituality, just like truth, is a very personal thing that one can only discover for him/herself IMHO.

    What? Each person can decide for themself what truth is?

    So, if the truth is you have been fired from work, your unemployed...but your wife doesnt want to believe it, will the bills still get paid?

    The truth is not a personal choice. It's the truth and it matters not wether one discovers it for themselves.
    BBA

  2. #102
    Ultimate Member mazdarx7-64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whos Theo?
    Most christians aren't crazed zealots, just the ones that try to force their religion on you and the ones that are in fact crazed zealots.
    It is just that the crazed zealots are the ones that are on T.V., in general, go door to door etc.... They are the few that give a bad rap to the many.
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  3. #103
    Senior Member James T's Avatar
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    One of my enjoyable mornings involved a lively discussion (for an hour) with some door-knockers. I cannot remember their faith, but they were both committed, optimistic and wasting their time.

    I spent some time researching the sources on thoughts on morals, existence, good ... which led into some of the great philosophers. What struck me most was how some managed to build a lifetimes work on a stupid idea. After erecting castles it's very difficult to accept that the foundation stone should have been other than on sand.

    It seems prudent to accept my direct experience of existence as the truth and to accept the simplest explanation consistent with the ability to predict my experience as acceptable descriptions. Following this line provides a rewarding (although somewhat humbling) interpretation of our place.

    An argument on the basis that you have to have faith to experience faith is too much like bootstrapping, in the literal sense (not the geek use). And is often defended by a refusal to question. Hence the question .

  4. #104
    Ultimate Member Toadman's Avatar
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    Most christians aren't crazed zealots, just the ones that try to force their religion on you and the ones that are in fact crazed zealots.
    Christians are called upon to preach the Gospel of *gasp*dare I say his name?
    How many times have you been accosted or pinned to the ground and force-fed the "Jesus loves you" Gospel, OP? Please name a few zealots. you can change channels with your thumb as good as the rest of the world. We're not talking encyclopedia/ hoover vac door-pounders here.

    Why does it irritate you so, and do other 'religions' have the same irrelevant significance? So let's be objective and analytical for a sec. Why does quoting a Bible verse have an effect on people far more intense than any other faith's? People grit teeth, lash out, ridicule, claim intolerance, etc. Followed by the plug-ears-close eyes and la-la-la-la-la with the tongue. Yet they can calmly and objectively listen to other faith's doctrine without blinking an eye. What's so inflammatory about the Bible and those who profess it, even when not pressed?

    Being curious I'm just just wondering what's arouses the ire and knee-jerk pulse-pounding reaction to hearing this so-called "Gospel" compared to other faiths.

    It seems prudent to accept my direct experience of existence as the truth and to accept the simplest explanation consistent with the ability to predict my experience as acceptable descriptions. Following this line provides a rewarding (although somewhat humbling) interpretation of our place.
    Simplest, as in easiest conclusion being prudent without doing research? I am a grain of sand in time, therefore I am?

    The wisdom of man is folly to God.
    Last edited by Toadman; December 21st, 2004 at 11:45 PM.

  5. #105
    Senior Member James T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman
    Simplest, as in easiest conclusion being prudent without doing research? I am a grain of sand in time, therefore I am?

    The wisdom of man is folly to God.
    The simplest answer is often only obvious after someone has done the hard work to work it out, so no.

    The wisdom of man is generally clothed as the word of god. You are assuming a distinction that does not exist.

  6. #106
    Ultimate Member chipbgt's Avatar
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    you know a lot of people like to try to say documents are false and jesus didnt exist...why is it no one wants to talk about what He says? find something that he says in the Bible that you find repugnant and we could discuss that.

  7. #107
    Banned pphalan's Avatar
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    Golden rule,chip it would be interesting to see people debate that

  8. #108
    Senior Member James T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipbgt
    you know a lot of people like to try to say documents are false and jesus didnt exist...why is it no one wants to talk about what He says? find something that he says in the Bible that you find repugnant and we could discuss that.
    Should we start with Genesis?

  9. #109
    Banned pphalan's Avatar
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    The subject is about Christians James,although the old testament has prophecy about the messiah

  10. #110
    I am a banana! originel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanoffski
    Yes, it is very personal, but in some cases how can you discover that for yourself if you know nothing whatsoever about it? (i.e. how could you become a christian, muslim, etc. if you don't know about it, if you've never heard of the bible or the karan?) Wouldn't you say learning from others in this situation is a good thing?
    Read my last post, in between this one and the one you are referring too. I dealt with that exact subject in detail .

    Quote Originally Posted by BBA
    What? Each person can decide for themself what truth is?

    So, if the truth is you have been fired from work, your unemployed...but your wife doesnt want to believe it, will the bills still get paid?

    The truth is not a personal choice. It's the truth and it matters not wether one discovers it for themselves.
    I never said anything about choice at all. Discovering something is very very different than making something up. In the unemployment case, you discover you are fired (the truth) when the boss tells you that you are fired. You didn't know that you were fired until he told you however, so there is discovery here. This is a simple example of course. When it comes to matters of faith things are not nearly so simple, and the act of discovery is largely based on personal beliefs and bias. That is exactly why I say each person needs to learn it for themselves, not go on what someone else says. Do you remember the game telephone, where each person whispers something to the next person, and it goes around in a circle and has changed a lot by the end? That's why I say people should learn things for themselves, instead of relying on what others say about matters of faith. This way you are sure that what you believe is accurate (at least more so).
    Last edited by originel; December 22nd, 2004 at 12:49 AM.

  11. #111
    Ultimate Member Toadman's Avatar
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    The simplest answer is often only obvious after someone has done the hard work to work it out, so no.
    You just answered your own question.

    Hey Originel, substitute the word "sinner" for "fired" in your post above.
    Last edited by Toadman; December 22nd, 2004 at 01:07 AM.

  12. #112
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    I'm a Christian! Just found this thread....

    The truth is a fact, not an opinion or an experience. I repeat... truth = fact.

    Think of it like a court case. Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, was proven to be the son of God... God in the flesh. The truth about this "case" is not something you can find for yourself (the witnesses are no longer present), unless you find the "court records" and read them yourself. You must be told the good news in order to know what the truth is concerning the matter.
    You don't become a failure until you're satisfied with being one.

  13. #113
    I am a banana! originel's Avatar
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    There's more to being a christian than reading the bible. What I'm talking about is knowing God and entering into a relationship with Him. If someone only reads the bible, then they are not a christian at all.

    EDIT: btw, i said that absolute truth is fact too
    Last edited by originel; December 22nd, 2004 at 02:15 AM.

  14. #114
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    Ultimately there is only one true answer for every question,this is my response to those who say well thats your opinion.

  15. #115
    nuisance since 1968 OuTpaTienT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman
    Christians are called upon to preach the Gospel of *gasp*dare I say his name?
    How many times have you been accosted or pinned to the ground and force-fed the "Jesus loves you" Gospel, OP?
    Accosted? Pinned down? Well, none. That's a silly assertion. I would have them arrested if it happened. And I'd like to know how many times you've been held hostage by atheists as they tortured you and forced you to not believe? How many? I'm guessing... 4 times maybe?

    A more realistic question: How many times have I been stuck in an awkward and uncomfortable position because someone that knows me either through family, friends, or just chance (for example sitting next to me on an airplane) decides to take advantage of however they came into contact with me and try to "enlighten" me and "show me the light"? Too many. And it just gets old after a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman
    Why does it irritate you so, and do other 'religions' have the same irrelevant significance?
    Think, please. What if it wasn't your god that was so prevalent in our society? What is it wasn't your god that was on legal tender or in the Pledge of Alligence or thousands of other inappropriate places. What if? What if there were still a god in those places...just not your god...then how would your views change? What if it was Buddha, or maybe Satan in all those places? Then how would you view the situation? Would you still think that the "society's god" should remain in those places? Or would you think those people (the majority of the country hypothetically) should just keep their Buddha or Satan to themselves? Please answer honestly and seriously.

    I dunno, I think a black and red federal reserve note with "United States of America, All Hail Satan" might look pretty cool. Get rid of the pyramid and put a pentagram in blood. That might be alright.

    -------

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakiMana
    I'm a Christian! Just found this thread....

    The truth is a fact, not an opinion or an experience. I repeat... truth = fact.

    Think of it like a court case. Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, was proven to be the son of God... God in the flesh. The truth about this "case" is not something you can find for yourself (the witnesses are no longer present), unless you find the "court records" and read them yourself. You must be told the good news in order to know what the truth is concerning the matter.
    Sorry. Just doesn't fly. We're supposed to go on hearsay about something this big? Obviously, if it was "proven", as you say, that JC was the son of God then it stands to reason that it was proven for a purpose. The people at that time needed proof and let's say it was provided. Ok. Fine. But now, thousands of years later, we are just suppose to believe because of stories handed down through the generations? That's absolutely ludicrous! People of this time need proof as well. I know I need lots more proof before I'm gonna believe any of this stuff. So what's the deal? We aren't worth God's time? If that's how He feels, then He ain't worth my time either. [shrug]
    Last edited by OuTpaTienT; December 22nd, 2004 at 02:59 AM.

  16. #116
    Banned pphalan's Avatar
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    How long do you believe a bald face lie can survive,a preacher I know was convinced that the apostles were telling the truth by what happened to them.All 12 died a horrible death and the only thing they had to do is deny Christ to save themselves.That I find is powerful testimony,Paul had the same choice,admit what your saying is a lie and your life will be spared.THis is what many who dispute Christ ignores.The thousands that died later and all they had to do is deny their faith.

  17. #117
    FLAC Trooper ArcticFox's Avatar
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    Here's one for you faith-holding people.

    Absolute power corrupts, absolutely right?

    And who is all-powerful in your eyes? That's right, the keystone of your religion, (a) god..

    So, we can deduce that "god" = power = corruption.

  18. #118
    FLAC Trooper ArcticFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakiMana
    The truth is a fact, not an opinion or an experience. I repeat... truth = fact.

    I will say this, which is not in my own words but of somone elses.
    People whome are born in bondage of such a strong beileve grow stubborn to any other belief opposed of the only one they have ever known, assuming its the truth, this truth which is based on nothing but what their parents or the fictional bible has told them.

  19. #119
    Banned pphalan's Avatar
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    ArticFox, you have a question of Christians or sematics.
    We can argue the definition of any word forever .to have a meaningful dialog we have to agree 2 is 2 (just a example)
    Last edited by pphalan; December 22nd, 2004 at 04:12 AM.

  20. #120
    FLAC Trooper ArcticFox's Avatar
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    What?

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