Car Talk!

[RamonGTP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Bingo

Absolutely, but the GT-R is not for the enthusiast. It's like people who buy ARF (almost ready to fly) model airplanes. They don't know how - or don't want - to use their own hands to build the plane. That's fine and dandy, but you can do better if you know what you're doing. Same thing with cars. If you care about numbers, but don't know what to do to a Mustang or a Camaro, then you buy a GT-R, or you pay someone to put your mods on. The GT-R is for the yuppie who wants to go fast, but doesn't want to be bothered with grease and dirt and wrenches.

I've found that you CANNOT do better on your own. Not if you want to combine both performance AND reliability. Fact of the matter is that the R&D that goes into aftermarket parts is nowhere near as good as what you find on the car from the factory. Granted there are exceptions to every rule and there are people out there with enough knowledge, time, and resources to properly mod a car themselves and still retain reliability and have an edge in performance, but by in large, that is not the case.

[The Real Bingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamonGTP

I've found that you CANNOT do better on your own. Not if you want to combine both performance AND reliability. Fact of the matter is that the R&D that goes into aftermarket parts is nowhere near as good as what you find on the car from the factory. Granted there are exceptions to every rule and there are people out there with enough knowledge, time, and resources to properly mod a car themselves and still retain reliability and have an edge in performance, but by in large, that is not the case.

I disagree. I pay attention to the 2005+ Mustang community, and the guys who drag race are hardcore. They run low-11s and drive back home, and they probably didn't spend $50k on their car and mods. Some of these guys put on 20k miles per year.

Of course, the faster you want to go, the more you'll have to pay if you don't want something breaking every pass...and even then, it's a craps shoot. It's the nature of the beast...you gotta pay to play. There are weak links, no matter how fast you go - the clutch and tranny come to mind. After that, it's the engine and the rear, depending on how much grip you have. You know this.

The manufacturers have their own aftermarket brands, so you know it's the same quality as what you get on the car. Steeda, Saleen and Roush, all Mustang aftermarketers, work closely with Ford to develop and perfect their parts. I would feel 100% comfortable putting any of those name brand parts on my car.

[RobRich]

OEMs typically build for mass production. Rest assured, one can usually find far superior parts and builds in the aftermarket industry, especially for well-supported platforms.

There are many great aftermarket providers. In fact, OEMs often turn to the aftermarket industry for their performance builds.

Just look at ASC, Hennessey, Saleen, Shelby, Titan, etc.

[RamonGTP]

That's what I said, those who have the time, knowledge and resources, which is what you described. I've been to many car forums, I just find more people having issues that have modded their cars versus those that don't.

Example... Aftermarket Supercharged Mustang GT vs Cobra

If you're someone who can afford an 80K car, then you can probably by a mustang and properly mod it. Most mustang owners cannot afford an 80K car, so when they mod their car, it's not uncommon for them to omit supporting mods that are pretty much required for reliable, day to day operation. Like beefing up the tranny when you're pushing 600+ RWHP

[The Real Bingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamonGTP

That's what I said, those who have the time, knowledge and resources, which is what you described. I've been to many car forums, I just find more people having issues that have modded their cars versus those that don't.

Example... Aftermarket Supercharged Mustang GT vs Cobra

I guess it's hit and miss. Also depends when you get the part. If you gotta be the first one to get it, you're bound to experience problems. If you wait a couple years, all the kinks are worked out and everyone knows how to fix any issues that come up.

Also, those who mod their cars tend to beat the balls off 'em...so that may have something to do with it.

[RobRich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Bingo

I pay attention to the 2005+ Mustang community, and the guys who drag race are hardcore. They run low-11s and drive back home, and they probably didn't spend $50k on their car and mods. Some of these guys put on 20k miles per year.]

^This. Pretty much the same with F-bodies, Corvettes, and even lots of various econosport imports. For the red light racers out there, watch out for those primered second-generation Camaros and Firebirds. A $1.5k shell with flaking paint, half an interior, tubbed rear, and a race-built 454 under the the hood.

Given I own a Talon, I used to keep tabs on the DSM community, which practically dominated the I4 aftermarket performance scene in the United States for numerous years. The big reason? Cost. The cars were affordable, AWD was available, there was a dedicated enthusiast community, and the aftermarket industry embraced the 4G63 engine.

Mitsubishi wasn't really supporting the early DSM performance enthusiasts. Similarly, good luck with Chrysler, despite it being a joint partner in the DSM venture. However, the aftermarket industry responded, with many of the best parts providers and builders working closely with the enthusiast community.

The result is DSMs being streeted at 600+ HP as daily drivers. There are purpose built DSMs at 1000+ HP running in the 7s, and even at least one highly modified DSM running in the 6s. DSMs even occasionally popup on various autocross circuits. It is essentially the "poor man's" EVO, and in some ways, a well-built aftermarket DSM can even be quite superior to the EVO.

Don't think I have ever seen a $75k DSM*.

*There was a guy working on a dual-charged 4G63 with both a supercharger and turbocharger, which he figured would cost around $35k to build, but (IIRC) he was building it for an EVO.

[zen]

[GroundZero3]

Nice!

[zen]

The pictures suck but its all I have at the moment, crappy weather and all.

$18,000 + taxes and tags gents. It's no 450hp Shelby Cobra, or 540hp GT500kr, but I'm still able to ignite the rear wheels at any time, outrun or outperform 75% of the dailey driven cars, (which mine is), and still have money left over for other hobbies. For another 5k, I can supercharge it and pull nearly the same numbers as the 60-80k Mustangs, for a third the price!

I've seen the GT-R in person at the dealer and they are bad ass no doubt about it. I'd take one.....with your money!

I think I'm getting the best bang for the buck. It's fun!I can live with a measly 300hp for awhile.

[SoloCamo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamonGTP

The AWD helps with the launch, the advantage ends there.

Which much simpler car in it's price range surpasses it at the circuit?

And the only reason I labled your remarks as domestic fanboyism isn't becuase you like the Z06 better, I like the Z06 better as well, but becuase you pretty much called the GTR over priced and under performing, yet gave the Z06 praise when it has similar price and performance.

Look is all subjective, performance isn't, so that really has nothing to do with it.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here. Yes, the GT-R does perform well on a circuit, but to me it's just not a true sports car. It's too heavy, it's too electronically controlled, etc. It just seems so crippled to me by these things. Lighten it up, get rid of the gizmos and let the driver do the driving, not the computer. That pretty much sums up my distaste for the car. Not saying if given the keys I wouldn't take one, but if I had a choice for the price range it wouldn't be the car I'd pick.

____

Anyways! Going to replace the distributor cap & rotor on the Jeep tomorrow as I very foolishly didn't change them when I did the spark plugs and wires well over a year ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen

I think I'm getting the best bang for the buck. It's fun!I can live with a measly 300hp for awhile.