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  1. #21
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    Yet even 100 years later hatred and animosity towards them remained, hence it was naive of them to stay.

    The method by which whites entered Africa sealed their fate 100 years later.

    So despite the fact that they may have aided the economy, or called Zimbabwe their homeland, they were fooling themselves.

    The natives, i.e. blacks, will look at the whites in the context of how they appeared in the region. For the native people of Zimbabwe, their experiences with these whites began with invasion, opression and slavery.

    You Americans seem to think that money precedes all aspects of life, hence you seem to lay great deal of weight on the "economy" issue when discussing Zimbabwe and the whites that were kicked out.

    The point i made is that its not about the money (economy), nor about how the whites saw themselves.

    The issue at hand is how Zimbabwe see's these whites. And evidently Zimbabwe did not see the white experience favourably in light of the historical events. Some money wont justify the initial injustice done.

  2. #22
    Ultimate Member Pexster's Avatar
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    I do not accept the premise that "Zimbabwe" viewed the whites with hatred and animosity. I would argue that Mugabe stoked those fires in an effort to draw attention away from his own miserable attempts at governing. Zimbabwe had a fairly healthy economy, and was relatively stable, until recently. ClubMed, you seem to argue that these events were inevitable due to the history of colonialism. I disagree.

  3. #23
    Ultimate Member ShawnD1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClubMed
    It was pretty naive of the whites to stay there after colonisation stopped. Anyone could see this happening.
    Isn't this how USA and Canada got started? Colonize >> stay >> win. Maybe the white guys wouldn't have been overthrown if they had killed off the locals like the american colonists did

    It would be nice to have a little more information here. For example, what's the relationship between Britain and Zimbabwe? When did the Brits move in, how did they do it? (war with european country or war with locals of Zimbabwe?) How was their rule? (fascist? slavery? segregation?). When did they pull out? (both government and military wise). How have things been after they officially pulled out? What's the deal with the remnant British colonists?
    Last edited by ShawnD1; August 1st, 2005 at 04:42 PM.
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  4. #24
    Ultimate Member mad1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnD1
    Isn't this how USA and Canada got started? Colonize >> stay >> win. Maybe the white guys wouldn't have been overthrown if they had killed off the locals like the american colonists did

    It would be nice to have a little more information here. For example, what's the relationship between Britain and Zimbabwe? When did the Brits move in, how did they do it? (war with european country or war with locals of Zimbabwe?) How was their rule? (fascist? slavery? segregation?). When did they pull out? (both government and military wise). How have things been after they officially pulled out? What's the deal with the remnant British colonists?
    "Land redistribution reemerged as a issue beginning in 1999. In 1998, Britain and other Western nations had agreed to help finance further land redistribution, but donors balked when Zimbabwe unilaterally announced an expansion of the land-reform program. A draft constitution that would have increased Mugabe's powers and permitted uncompensated seizure of white-owned farms was rejected in a Feb., 2000, referendum, but the government pressed forward with its land-redistribution agenda. The issue became increasingly divisive, as Mugabe exploited it for political gain and black squatters attacked white farmers. The constitution was amended to permit uncompensated seizure of farms, but the supreme court twice declared the government's land reform program illegal in part, rulings that Mugabe ignored. Mugabe supporters subsequently sought to intimidate the judiciary and succeeded in forcing the chief justice from office in Mar., 2001."

    Encyclopedia.com
    Last edited by mad1; August 2nd, 2005 at 07:34 AM.

  5. #25
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
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    Generally speaking hundred year old grievances after extended peace are more the result of divisive power seekers who attempt to utilize dead grievances to gain power.

    They utilize normal social and economic divisions to rekindle past wounds. It is not as pure as the driven snow as you might suggest CM. These farmers lived in Zimbabwe their entire lives (in their homes and with their friends). They were Zimbabwe citizens and it was their homeland just as much as the genetic locals.

    The way you speak of they should have left knowing they were not liked is kinda funny. Leave the only land you know your whole life. So you would have suggested that blacks in America should have left in the 1870’s to 1960’s they were not liked right???

    Based upon the division in the decision to take the farms it might be considered that the Black folks were not universally hating their white neighbors. Like most modern insurrection it is lead by the an elite power seeker and uses a small segment of angry ignorant and the poor as they are easily manipulated due to their lot in life.

    CM,

    it is bigotry at its finest. I guess you support bigotry.
    Last edited by Epidemic; August 2nd, 2005 at 09:14 AM.

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