May 11th, 2006, 03:50 PM #1
- Join Date
- Oct 2001
- inside the Beltway
- Blog Entries
Catholic teacher fired for using in vitro fertilization
It's not just abortion that's sinful, you know:MILWAUKEE - Kelly Romenesko was teaching French at two Roman Catholic schools in Appleton when she and her husband decided to start a family using in vitro fertilization.
After asking for some time off in September 2004 to complete the procedure, the lifelong Catholic gave her boss an update about a month later: She was pregnant.
But only days after that, she said, she got a pink slip from the Catholic school system. Administrators, according to her lawyer James C. Jones, claimed Romenesko violated a provision of her employment contract saying a teacher has to act in accordance with Catholic doctrine.
"All she was trying to do was have a child, which of course should be a wonderful thing," Jones said Tuesday.
In vitro fertilization involves extracting eggs from a woman's ovaries and fertilizing them with sperm in a laboratory dish or test tube. The fertilized eggs are implanted into the woman's uterus.
Catholic teaching holds that the procedure is morally wrong because it replaces the "natural" conjugal union between husband and wife and often results in destruction of embryos.
Even though Jones said the couple used their own eggs and sperm and none of the embryos were destroyed in the process, the church forbids such donations and condemns all forms of experimentation on human embryos.I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. --J.S. Mill
May 11th, 2006, 04:34 PM #2
Wow. Amazing that the Catholic church refuses to "update it policies" on things.YAH! I knew you'd be jealous
May 11th, 2006, 06:19 PM #3Originally Posted by Tekk
So, if the Church "updates its policies" and doesn't consider that a sin anymore, then it won't count as a sin against God?? That <i>is</i> what you're saying, correct?
I always thought God was the one who made the rules instead of the Church...
On the subject of this thread...Unfortunately, infertilization is her cross that she has to carry.Super Gerbil
May 11th, 2006, 07:00 PM #4
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
You have to wonder how many pedophiles they harbored over the years.
May 11th, 2006, 08:03 PM #5
Those crazy Catholics! Wear a flamesuit!
May 12th, 2006, 08:19 AM #6
First off, their church, their rules, play by em or get out.
If they want to believe there is a magic guy in the sky who cares if we give nature a little assist then oh well.
Originally Posted by super gerbil
May 12th, 2006, 12:07 PM #7Originally Posted by super gerbil
Thats right God does make the rules. Since when is in vitro fertilization a sin against God? I guess thats just a matter of personal opinion but I, being a Catholic myself, do NOT think it is a sin.
Its just ridiculous that the Church acts so high and mighty about judging people when in fact, as you mentioned, they dont make the rules. God will have that final judgement and I believe he/she wont be too worried about in vitro. There are so many other terrible things/sins that occur in this world.
Originally Posted by Tramp429YAH! I knew you'd be jealous
May 12th, 2006, 02:07 PM #8
In vitro is not allowed because during the process there's a chance of killing the embryos, and since the Catholic church teaches that life begins at conception, those embryos are little human beings.
May 12th, 2006, 02:21 PM #9Originally Posted by lost-and-found
You have problems carrying to term, so you try for years to conceive. Little do you know but many many many babies are killed as they are conceived and then fail to implant properly before the next period goes by and flushes their tiny bodies down the toilet.
In vitro fertilization improves the odds and reduces the hundreds of failed attempts.
May 12th, 2006, 02:31 PM #10
And everyone says the Muslims are extreme?At first it was thought that Oetzi died from exposure to cold but wounds on his hands and an arrowhead lodged in his back suggest a more violent death
May 12th, 2006, 02:39 PM #11
Can't let that one pass.
When you fall shy of muslim teachings, you are often subject to torture and abuse sometimes even death. well that is at least if you are a woman
With catholics they make you say "I am very very very bad now say you are sorry". Or if you refuse they say "I will pray for you".
Now that is the kind of extremism I can live with.
Last edited by Epidemic; May 12th, 2006 at 02:42 PM.
May 12th, 2006, 02:43 PM #12
Originally Posted by lost-and-found
- Join Date
- Oct 2001
- inside the Beltway
- Blog Entries
Up to 78% of natural conceptions end in failure of implantation or spontaneous abortion in the early stages and are never noticed. The opposition to IVF isn't based on a practical consideration of reduced embryonic mortality; it's because IVF "separates conception from the act of love and thus violates natural law". (Hey, take it up with them; I don't invent this stuff).
Last edited by Theophylact; May 12th, 2006 at 02:49 PM.I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. --J.S. Mill
May 12th, 2006, 02:54 PM #13
Epidemic and Theo, however one death is casued directly by human interaction (artificial implantation of the embryo which was concieved outside of the female's body), the other is caused by nature (the naturally conceived embryo fails to attach to the uterus wall).
Another example is the church's view on abortion, as compared to the death of a baby in stillbirth. One dieath is once again directly (and in the case of abortion, intentionally) caused by human actions, the other is a natural death.
I know it's difficult to understand the reasoning behind these decisions, but the teachings of the church are based on the fact that all life belongs to God, he is the only one that can give or take life away, therefore any medical procedures that has a very high risk of causing death due to direct human actions are not allowed.
You could argue that when couples try to concieve naturally, they're also responsible for causing the deaths, but that's not true. In a natural conception, after the intercourse , all is left to nature (the will of God), there's no human component or direct human influence that leads to the death.
In artificial conception, such as in vitro, all steps are governed by human actions. First is the conception done unnaturally (the petri dish), and second is the human caused implantation of the test embryos in the uterus.
May 12th, 2006, 03:00 PM #14Originally Posted by Epidemic
Both catholics and muslims have extreme beleivers in their ranks. They also have the normal and moderates. When I said extreme I mean extreme rules. Like catholics, not allowed contraception, not allow IV now....things which are perfectly reasonable. And of course Muslims have rules which are extreme as well. But both of the listed above are allowed under Islam.
I have a freind at university who is catholic. He took two years out when his girlfriend fell pregnant. The other day he says that his girlfriend mis-carried. I said why didn't you use a rubber. You can't possibly want another child. He says he can't...he is catholic, to which i replied...you shouldn't be having pre-marital sex either then.
I contemplated type my first post in the thread yesterday but decided against it. I posted it today....and then straight away though argggg.....oops....but realised I couldn't delete it
edit : Just trying to point out that there are 'extremists' in all walks of life..some of the stuff that animal right people do over in the UK is shocking!
Last edited by porsch1909; May 12th, 2006 at 03:07 PM.At first it was thought that Oetzi died from exposure to cold but wounds on his hands and an arrowhead lodged in his back suggest a more violent death
May 12th, 2006, 03:02 PM #15
Actually, during IVF many eggs are harvested and fertilized, leading to many live human beings (as the Church sees it). Now I believe some of you may be confusing failure of conception to produce a live baby and killing fertilized eggs to be the same thing. If it ise to you then that is fine, it is not the same to a lot of people.
Now in the eyes of the Catholic Church every one of those fertilized eggs are a live full-blown human life and they don’t want you killing that off.
The procedure also consists of implanting many fertilized eggs which many times requires what they call “selective reduction”, or abortion. Something else the Church does not like, basically for the same reasons..
porsch – extreme, perhaps but they did not stone her or burn down the facility that the IVF was performed in........
edit (boy oh boy i have to learn how to type faster)
Last edited by Vagabond; May 12th, 2006 at 03:05 PM.You know dog spelled backwards is god.....
coincidence ..... i think not.
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
By Beemer in forum IMO CommunityReplies: 6Last Post: March 3rd, 2006, 10:57 PM
By no1_vern in forum IMO CommunityReplies: 35Last Post: October 10th, 2005, 08:16 PM
By butch81385 in forum IMO CommunityReplies: 33Last Post: November 14th, 2004, 12:49 AM
By Theophylact in forum IMO CommunityReplies: 2Last Post: November 15th, 2002, 10:58 AM
By Solid Snake in forum IMO CommunityReplies: 60Last Post: April 10th, 2002, 12:06 AM