Is it legal to

[twospot]

Is it legal to surreptitiously document illegal activity by your employer at work?

[tony_j15]

Depends on the documenting method. Taking notes or making copies is generally fine. Recording audio or video can be problematic, since some states have laws that make it illegal to record anyone without their express knowledge.

Generally, I would get the authorities involved at the earliest possible moment.

[Epidemic]

Is it legal to surreptitiously document illegal activity by your employer at work?

Illegal no, but for me it would depend on what they were doing whether I took action or not.

I remember when we as a company had a bunch of copies of Mapinfo floating around illegally. The corporation was not aware of it and someone ratted us out to MapInfo causing a whole lota problems.

In that case I would simply have addressed it internally.

[twospot]

basically, we're talking overcharging.

Customer 'contracts' for one thing at a high price and the work that is performed is a much lower price product but charged at the higher price because the customer won't know.

Customer ends up paying 90% more than they should had they asked for the lower priced product.

[tony_j15]

If the customer is paying for product "A" but being delivered product "B" that is a sort of fraud, I believe.
With contracts it gets more complicated. Also, if the customer is merely not asking and is fine with the higher priced product, then that is their issue.

[Taxmancometh]

Recording audio or video can be problematic, since some states have laws that make it illegal to record anyone without their express knowledge.

Does this also apply to employers? I was secretly recorded by HR and only found out about it when the bitch threw the tapes in the trash. I guess she realized that she was in the wrong. IDK...

[Chuckiechan]

Hold it.

You need to see the contract documents, especially regarding substitutions. Your idea of "cheating" may be within the scope of the contract.

And who exactly determines what the work is worth if when the job is done, your customer got what he paid for according to the contract.

It's up to the customer to get competitive bids, and review each one to see that they match the specs - apples to apples so to speak. So assuming the job was "bid", then the other bidders must have been higher. If it was not bid, then it's "buyer beware". But at the end of the day, it is up to the customer to determine that the job meets the specs.

I'd be very careful about making claims you can't back up. And finally, are you in a position to know what is actually being done?

[pickel]

Turn them anonymously or use someone else's name( like a member of management ). An investigation should prove illegal activity , regardless who initiates the whole scenario.

[PoonDoggy]

From how I read this, the contractor is bidding to provide a specific product but is actually substituting a cheaper product at the bidded price without the contractees knowledge, is that correct?

[RicheemxX]

Before you dive in my suggestion would be find a law site or something of the sorts and not a tech site. You might even want to speak directly to an attorney I'm sure there are plenty of none armchair lawyers out there that can give you better advise than us techies.

As to overcharging - well you'd have to be more clear as to what you mean. If a customer comes in to the shop and I charge them $75 for part A and $100 for labor as long as I put part A in it doesn't matter what I pay for it. If I changed things up and replaced it with part B, a much cheaper part, then yeah that can be considered fraud.

On the labor side it would depend if I'm overcharging them for hours I'm not actually working or not. f I'm charging them hourly then can't bill them 4 hours if I'm only working 20-30 mins. But I can certainly charge them a flat rate or a flat hour. With contracts things become a bit more messy. I can contract the work and bill it at say 4hrs and as long as the work is done it might not fall into the fraud category its a little slippery there.

[Interrupt]

I agree 100% with RicheemxX on everything he said here. While I can only give non-attorney input on the matter, having a strong legal background I can at least say that in most states it is 100% illegal to record without consent (as in a tape recorder or recording a message over your cell phone). If in doubt consult an attorney.

In case anyone is wondering, law enforcement personnel have to go through hoops to be able to wiretap, pen register or use any other form of surveillance. Government and local law enforcement are bound to adhere to your constitutional rights. I took a lengthily course on the law of criminal evidence and we were instructed that law enforcement has the burden of proving to a judge that the *very specific* order is necessary.

The only major exception is as it relates to homeland security.

Private individuals cannot usually do this without both parties being in full consent of the recording (within most jurisdictions that is). That isn't to say it doesn't happen in the corporate sector with rival companies: it does, and it's almost always dealt with harshly. However it's also important to state that the conversation must be kept private (a reasonable expectation of privacy is absolutely necessary; chatting it up at the bar in hushed tones does not count and is considered public not private).

A person-to-person telephone call is almost always considered private. The exceptions are if there's a reasonable circumstance in which privacy might be hindered: someone, unknowingly, picking up the end of the telephone.

If, in the case of a boss speaking to you, is done in a relatively public setting in hushed tones, such is usually determined on a case-by-case basis.

Conversations to record illegal wrong doing (as if you were a whistle blower) are not usually acceptable. In such cases you should probably contact local law enforcement and let them handle it.

Exception - Keep in mind that there are jurisdictions where you are allowed to conduct one-party consent recordings. It is my understanding that these are few and far between. Where I live - New York - it is not like this. We cannot record with only one party's consent. If in doubt, feel free to check at a local law library (or with an attorney).

I can't answer any more in terms of whether or not this constitutes as "illegal," as I'm not sure I understand what your boss did or didn't do. You should probably contact an attorney and, through them, determine whether or not you should contact the police with your claim. But, unless you are sure on how your state courts feel toward one-party consent, I'd stay clear of recording private conversations.

That all said: police generally don't appreciate whistle blowers... at least not where I'm from. Unless your boss is somehow harming you personally... I'd just chalk it up to normal work crap. But again... don't take my word for it, seek legal advice from an attorney in your state.

[Taxmancometh]

One-party consent recordings over the telephone are allowed here in Colorado. I made sure of this by merely contacting the local police's non- emergency number.

[Interrupt]

Crap... N.Y. Penal Law §§ 250.00, 250.05 Me too. Would you look at that? My teacher was an idiot-head.

2. "Mechanical overhearing of a conversation" means the intentional
overhearing or recording of a conversation or discussion, without the
consent of at least one party thereto, by a person not present thereat,
by means of any instrument, device or equipment.

Still OP, best check first as some states do not allow this form of consent.

[Taxmancometh]

Wow! N.Y. is one phucked up state. I would be charged for possession of an eavesdropping device. I bought the thing at Radio Shack. Like I said though, CO. is different.

S 250.10 Possession of eavesdropping devices.
A person is guilty of possession of eavesdropping devices when, under
circumstances evincing an intent to use or to permit the same to be used
in violation of section 250.05, he possesses any instrument, device or
equipment designed for, adapted to or commonly used in wiretapping or
mechanical overhearing of a conversation.
Possession of eavesdropping devices is a class A misdemeanor.

I have a fine lock picking set which is a felony if I got caught with it. I keep it at home in a nice secure place. I had to help a neighbor get in their house once though.

[Interrupt]

Yeah, I have a radio scanner. And I was in the scanner club... and some kid modded his for use with his laptop in intercepting cell phones. He got in trouble from the FCC and the locals. :P (Scanners in and of themselves are fine, of course.)

[Taxmancometh]

HA! I'm a scanner buff and a member of a forum called Radio reference I won't say what I have done, but rest assured if I were caught I'd probably still be in prison. PM me!

[Taxmancometh]

(Scanners in and of themselves are fine, of course.)

Unless used in the commission of a crime of course.

[Interrupt]

Shhh... don't tell anyone what I did. Geez, some friend you are!

[Taxmancometh]

What???? I don't know what you did. I know what I did and I had a huge lack of a moral compass. I don't know how hackers live with themselves. *shrugs*

[twospot]

Would the 'possible' involvement of a fed contract make a difference?