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  1. #1
    Indispensable Member surreal's Avatar
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    Growth and Redemption

    Anyone know of any psychologists or philosophy etc. that says redemption is necessary for growth? (emotional and or moral)

  2. #2
    Some assembly required Knothead's Avatar
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    Whoa, BLAM! Surreal, there's no taking you lightly.

    Okay, if I'm taking your question corrrectly, the answer starts with inspiration... doggone it, I need to know why you are asking such a question!

    I've been typing all kinds of stuff here, and deleting it, because the question is HUGE.

    How can one be morally redeemed? WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT MEAN, ANYWAY?? And if this is possible...then what is that value? To another person? Or, to...God?? Who decides?

    Shoot, I wanna play with this, but now I have a headache...PLEH!

    Details, if you please... I'm curious, also.

  3. #3
    Indispensable Member surreal's Avatar
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    Awe Knot, I'm still trying to help the youngin' ..
    He does have a great mind tho...
    From this thread..
    http://www.techimo.com/forum/t28157.html
    "Sometimes life is just what we make it."

  4. #4
    Si vis pacem, para bellum daveleau's Avatar
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    I would take a religious route to that debate. But I do that with everything because I believe that religion pervades every facet of life, while not having to be the absolute focus of daily life. (I am not a person who is constantly talking about religion, those peopel even annoy me ) If you want to use religion as part of the debate, I have some good sites that will help with research.

    Dave

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member lynchmob's Avatar
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    That question can make one's head spin.Its been said,for instance,that:
    Redemption is coming to a dead stop and changing the direction you've been heading in.Can you see the path to redemption?You have to see that or there is no chance for growth.
    But...
    Do people consiencely seek redemption and is growth one of the results of achieving redemption?Yes.
    But...
    If they choose the wrong path because of ignorance or just plain bad advice,can growth still occur?Yes,by realizing the mistakes one makes,and doing somthing to correct those mistakes,you have still grown a little,even as you still seek redemption.
    I think most of these though came to me subliminally(falling asleep with the tv on) as I'm not one to spend a whole lot of time thinking,but if they're enough for a jumping off point to a deeper discussion(where I wont go ,then they may be useful.
    lynch
    Seldom right,but never in doubt...

  6. #6
    mickwish
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    If you look at the basis of the Christian religion, redemption is necessary for any growth. That's looking at the nature of the divide between God and man. If we are not redeemed, we cannot have a relationship with God due to the gap between us. Christ is the redemption.

    If you take this principle and apply in a similar way to personal relationships, you can see a common psychological principle: unless redemption (restoration) occurs, relationship growth cannot occur. So we need to be redeemed in some way to have growth in our relationships.

    The key here is to define what kind of "redemption" we require in which situations. A legal definition might be like the one here: http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q119.htm . A religious definition could be like this:
    human redemption: A subtexture of sacred texture, human redemption is the benefit transmitted from the divine realm to humans as a result of events, rituals, or practices. This benefit could take the form of a transformation of the mortal nature of humans to an immortal nature or the removal of impurity or guilt so that a person is liberated from powers or practices that are debilitating and destructive.
    [From http://www.emory.edu/COLLEGE/RELIGIO...s/h_defns.html ]

    So this might show that to be able to grow you need to be redeemed (ie something has to be returned to a former state, or freed of restrain or something).

    Hope that babble helps him.

    Cheers
    Mick

  7. #7
    Some assembly required Knothead's Avatar
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    I think Lynchmob and Mickwish have put up some pretty good points...I see a recurrent theme in both posts: That without redemption, growth in relationships is retarded, and/or stalled completely (I'm trying to keep this relevant to your boy's line of research; that is, not to take the Religious route, because it won't work for that debate of his.).

    Here's something that may work: I have noticed a phenomena in human nature that can destroy relationships between individuals, as well as entire peoples.

    It's a sequence, and it works like this:

    Person A and Person B have a relationship. A goes off and does something that hurts or betrays B's trust...commits a misdeed against B, basically.

    A, feeling guilty, needs to feel alright about him or herself, and so begins to find fault in B....i.e., "B deserved what A did..." (Usually, A won't realize that he or she is doing this, though.) and the destruction of the relationship has begun. B doesn't understand WHY A has gotten so hostile, so B gets hurt TWICE!

    To save or repair this relationship, there must be a Redemption... in the form of a full acknowledgement by A of what A has done...then perhaps reparations made to B, or even a simple apology, if B is capable of understanding the deal now.

    Without this redemption, there is no way these people can get along any more.

    With this redemption, the relationship grows stronger, in that B acknowledges the imperfection in A and forgives it. A, having been forgiven, feels closer to B, because in spite of A's failing, B has chosen to stay close to A in spite of that failing!

    This model can also be applied to entire groups of people as well.

    Hope this helps (shoot, I hope it's understandable!) I like where Patrick has gone with this, I think he's on to something here. Good luck, Todd

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