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  1. #1
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    Arab reaction to Columbia Disaster

    According to news reports, Arab reaction to the Columbia disaster is similar to what Muhammad el-Guidi, a 29-year-old Egyptian designer, said to the NY Times, "The fact that one Israeli died is good news. Also, to have some American dead is good news because of what they do to us."

    I'm not really sure what he's talking about when he said, ."..what they do to us." Their problems seem to me to be vastly home-grown.

    These are the people that danced in the streets when the WTC fell. We have to be real about who our friends are and who are our enemies. We give billions of foreign aid dollars to Egypt and this is their reaction.

  2. #2
    Free Thinker M_Six's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    By the "we" I'm sure he's referring to Islamics, not Egyptians as a whole. As far as supporting "friends", Egypt has always been a stabilizing presence in the Middle East. The presence of loud-mouthed, no-brain morons is no reason to stop supporting Egypt. There are English Islamics who feel the same way as this dolt. We still consider the English "friends."
    You can't fix stupidity.

  3. #3
    shahani
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    I am not surprised.

    Doesn't the US actively support a terrorist state (Israel) in murdering innocent civilians?

    In times of conflict these things will always happen.

  4. #4
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
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    We support Israel a country which defends itself against a terrorist state

    PS I do not think they are perfect but the circle is running and I do not fault Israel for retaliating.

    I feel that in the interest of peace they should move back to the 67 war boundaries. Pull the settlements out. Then again you tend to lose territory when you attack a country and that country kicks your butt.

  5. #5
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    I'd like one example of when Israel intentionally murdered innocent civilians. Sure, innocents get killed when Israel goes after the terrorists - this is unfortunate but unavoidable also. However, this is not their intention.

    On the other hand, when Palestinian bombers go into pizza parlors that have rows of baby carriages outside, murdering innocents is THEIR intention.
    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  6. #6
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    Epidemic,
    I don't know what's so magic about the 1967 borders. In 1967, Israel had the 1967 borders and Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked them anyway. Asking Israel to go back to the 1967 borders is just a stepping stone to get Israel to go back to the 1947 borders.
    Last edited by MTAtech; February 3rd, 2003 at 06:26 PM.
    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  7. #7
    shahani
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    Epidemic,

    Israeli soldiers routinely kill Palestine children for throwing rocks at them You know that.

    All I am saying is in times of war and bitter conflict, don't crib when the enemy rejoices at your misfortunes.

    Of course, I hasten to add that rejoicing at such tragic events reflects on them. But it's inevitable when so much bad blood exists.

    That's what I am saying.

  8. #8
    Leader of the Crab People Redwolf's Avatar
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    It all depends on your point of veiw.

    Objetively, Isreal is not a terrorist state. They do not actively employ terrorist tactics to lift religious, political, legal, or ANY ideology or person(s). Many arabs claim the US is being the terrorists. WE are not. We do not employ terrorist tactics.

    Subjectively, Terrorism is the terror you feel before someone or you dies right there. Doesn't matter who's side you fight for.

    During WWI and WWII, the Germans in teh army were not bad people. They simply faught for their country. The British were not bad people either in those wars. Nor were the Russians, Japanese, Italians, Polish, or any of the groups. Sure, some of these groups had governments that did bad things, and some with governments that did good things. But realize that the enemy you fight thinks he's every bit as right as you think you are. That is, of course, a fundamental flaw in democracy.

    But I will defend democracy as the best government until someone comes up with a system of governemt that gives the same amount of individuality as democracy does without the flaws.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member uethello's Avatar
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    I'd like one example of when Israel intentionally murdered innocent civilians
    I'm not going to post it here, but there's a link at ogrish. it's from 1-3-18. I'm afraid just this much information will get this post deleted if anybody sees the footage.

    This isn't neccessarily representative of my views, I did however find it highly disturbing that something like that would happen. What would I do if somebody did that to someone in my family?

  10. #10
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
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    MTAtech,

    I say 67 borders because it is a reasonable point. It gives a reasonable buffer between a proven enemy. But it is still a good faith gesture not a suicide pact. If they can play nice for perhaps 20 or 30 years then you go back to 47 borders. In either case the land should not be occupied by either group. merely a buffer between unfriendly neighbors.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Member uethello's Avatar
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    Let me clarify, as to the original question, Arab reaction to Columbia Disaster: Anybody who rejoices in death will probably go to hell.

  12. #12
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    Epidemic,
    It seems my comment was not understood. I said, "In 1967, Israel had the 1967 borders and Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked them anyway. Asking Israel to go back to the 1967 borders is just a stepping stone to get Israel to go back to the 1947 borders."

    In 1947, Israel did not exist. It became a nation in 1948. What I was trying to say is that now, the Arab states say that if Israel pulls back to the 1967 borders they would be peaceful. However, in 1967, when Israel had those borders, the Arabs attacked them with the presumption that they would drive them into the sea.

    So, my take is that the Arabs would be happy to exchange land for the promise of peace and when Israel gives up this land the Arabs will then demand more concessions for peace and it won't stop until Isreal doesn't exist.
    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by MTAtech
    I'd like one example of when Israel intentionally murdered innocent civilians. Sure, innocents get killed when Israel goes after the terrorists - this is unfortunate but unavoidable also. However, this is not their intention.
    Here's a link to a UN investigation of the happenings at Qana, where a UN headquarters was shelled by Israeli forces, resulting in more than 100 civilians deaths. There were no viable military targets for the Israelis in the area at the time.

    Which is not to say I am anti-Israel, but the thing is we don't always hear about some of the things that happen, nor are some of the things we do hear given the same amount of gravity relative to others.

  14. #14
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    Thanks aviax for the link. The Israeli's say that it was technical errors. This happened to the U.S. in the Gulf War, where the U.S. bombed a refuge for civilians. The U.S. also bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Both were said to be accidental.
    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  15. #15
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  16. #16
    shahani
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    Funny how US/Israeli bombings of children/civilians always seem to be accidental.

  17. #17
    Light to Counter the Dim MTAtech's Avatar
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    It is sad that Arab bombings of children/civilians always is intentional and without remorse.
    Conservatives: "If the facts disagree with our opinion, ignore the facts -- or at least misrepresent them."

  18. #18
    shahani
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    Arab bombings are intentional and terrorist in nature. How can there be remorse? But they call a spade a spade. They own up and admit openly they are doing these horrible acts. Doesn't condone their actions. But they don't lie.

    As do the Israeli/US bombing "explanations" of civilians.

    Every mishap is explained as an accident.

    Give me a break.

    Last night on O'Reilly I heard that many people around the world think Bush is a greater danger to world community than Saddam.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by shahani


    Last night on O'Reilly I heard that many people around the world think Bush is a greater danger to world community than Saddam.
    Shows you how misinformed those countries are. Saddam has had 24 years of terror to prove his insability, while Bush has been around only for a few years. Where is the proof that Bush is so dangerous? Typical anti-us b.s.

    I suppose the USA has some clandestine plan to rule the world, but what country doesn't? At least we use politics to 'steal' land and resources from another, Saddam wants to use Bio/chem/Nuke terror to accomplish this.

  20. #20
    shahani
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    I think the context of calling Bush "dangerous" was not terrorism but that his insistence in declaring a war with Iraq. This will have far-reaching consequences and affect nations globally.

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