Labor Unions

[charmler]

*

[Richard Cranium]

If not for Unions, the average pay in the US for "workers" would be much lower.

Remember what Henry Ford had done to his workers when they attempted to Unionize ?

He called the Mob and the Police to them and many died as a result, this is the reason many old folks refuse to drive Ford Motor products.

Sweatshops, the ones that lock the doors and force people to work in horrid conditions, the union has helped minimize these.

Granted the Union(s) are not perfect, nor are the members but if you let large business run free they will rape you, mutilate you, and bury your corpse in the company graveyard.

I've worked for Union jobs since 1967, I have worked at several Non-Union jobs too.
One was Hon Industries, a modern sweatshop. This company uses fear, intimidation, threats and the firing of innocent workers to keep the rest "in-line"
They fired 13 of us in 1971 then put on our records that we quit without notice.

I hear people who know NOTHING about unions say things like "they let people stay who won't work" or "You CAN'T get fired at a Union job"
These people are FOS, they don't have a clue. The union is really weak in comparison to a large corporation.

Want to know what its like to work non-uniion ?
Go to Mexico or China, that's what it WAS like here at the turn of the century.

The trade unions have also standardized quality of work through training and progressive promotion. Not promotion by the "good-ol-boy standards.

DrVette

[wyvrn]

Thanks for the info DrVette. Nice to have someone with experience comment on the matter.

[prttybean]

Well, our production shop in unionized. The office isn't. I have by far much better benefits than they do. Also, the drivers are seriously underpaid. They only good thing the union memebers get is the grievance process if they do get fired. Problem is that it took catching the same idiot stealing twice before we could get rid of him. The union here has a bad reputation though. There are other better unions in the area which is probably why we are with the one we are.

[Sohgin]

How does that old saying go? Either the bear wins or the lion wins, the rabbit still gets eaten. Well you get my point.

Letting the companies have the only say in how their workers are treated isn't the answer, but neither is letting another third party have that same power.

What is the answer? I don't have a clue. I'm not a politician, nor a businessman. But while I haven't actually been in a union (nor do I ever plan on being in one) I have seen the laziness and stupidity that unions propogate. They are not the answer, that is for certain.

Well said doc.


Hmm an open book test would have been nice when I joined the IBEW in 95'. But noooo, I guess I did not luck out there, did score a 97 though.


I worked both sides and I will tell you that being in the IBEW is one of the best decisions I made, regardless of my current situation, because I am always treated with the respect I deserve…well 99% of the time.



The UAW makes some fine vehicles and they are not just the big three either; they also build foreign cars here in the states.



If unions were as powerful as you think then I would be working right now!

[Fingers]

I've worked around unions enough to make my own informed decision.

#3, Unions NO!!!

[Ed_S]

Hmmm...

As to the union's political affiliation, the leaders don't cast the vote. The individual member does. Most people I know make up their own minds, although a very few follow like sheep. BTW, members also vote in the leaders who set the dues, and can vote them out.

Now, your other statements:
"The unions strike for MONEY" - Yep, among other things. So? Everyone has benefitted from union's pay increases. All those members get more and then spend more. Everyone they buy from benefits!
Also, non-union companies must match union pay rates or loose their quality workers. I know of an auto dealer here that is strongly non-union. Only one in town like this. He pays over scale, equal benefit package, and his employees have told union reps to get out!! But would he pay as much if there were no union shops nearby? Duhhh - NO!!!


"They protect the lazy" - maybe, to a point. They protect every member from unfair firing by making the employer prove laziness (or whatever). Fair firings happen all the time. So do unfair ones, I've seen it happen. I guarantee, if the employer wants you gone, it'll happen.

Education unions I know nothing of, so won't comment.
BUT - "The autoworkers unions have yet to build a vehicle that is the best of class."
Ever heard of the Corvette? The Taurus? The F-150?
Many others!! All best of class. No, maybe not as good as Mercedes, BMW, Ferrarri, etc. But that's a different class!!
Oh, yeah - how do we refer to an item when we wish to express it's quality? "It's the Cadillac of <whatever>"
Hmmm, them dang Caddies are union built!




I've been in the Teamsters since 1978. I've never been a strong "Union Man", heck, back then I thought the union was a bad thing, that I'd be better off w/o it. Felt that I didn't need "them". Insurance? Pension? Who cared?
Maybe so - then.
Now, I'm in my forties. Little different story. Insurance is a vital neccessity. I've got 6 years to go on a "thirty-and-out" pension plan. At age 49, I can start drawing my full pension - and go to work elsewhere! Try that with a 401K - hehehe...

Now, would that have happened w/o a union?? Not a chance!!

Yes, many union leaders are useless and corrupt. Yes, the system is far from perfect.
But all things considered, I've got to say #1 - UNIONS YES!

Ed

[psyco]

I've found out in our shop that the union is only as good as the people you vote into the board. If everyone puts politics aside and votes for the best person for the job then it will run very well.

If you get people in that have the attitude of "screw the company" then it screws everyone.The union and company end up in a pissing war...not good.

If you vote in the bosses drinking buddies then you can guess what happens, an ineffective union.

Unions work...if you use your head.

[Richard Cranium]

Ed, as far as "Best of Class" what about a Chevy Truck ??

None better in the 1/2 & 3/4 ton regardless of who builds it. Perhaps the Dodge engine (Cummings) is bulletproof but the rest of the truck can't compare with the Chevy.

No Rice burner, even the new "Full Size" Toyota can compare.