Dear Members and Friends

[ClubMed]

The respective thread was closed, and I noticed a slight misunderstanding of one of the fundamental foundations of our religion. So I started a new thread just to point something out, this is no attack against anyone. (In connection with the 'Jihad!' thread).

Quote:

..."Jihad" is as reported on TV everyday a "Holy War"...

Jihad means 'striving' and 'commitment' for a cause, it does not imply war or violence in Arabic, it can be a commitment to anything. It basically tells us Muslims to make a constant effort and strife to be better and to improve our situation.

All over the media, even your very own president said that this is not a war on Islam, it is a war against certain enemies, that wish destruction to our world and our lives.

Now is the time to unite. Not to make false allegations or rude remarks in connection with another faith or culture, whether for fun, on purpose or by accident.

We all have one common enemy, ignorance. Lets fight it together!.

The 'Jihad!' thread offended me because the GIF image (sent to be from a friend here) had nothing to with Jihad or Islam. I felt it was wrongly titled.

I once again would like so stress the importance of intercultural and interfaith communication.

A concerned friend.

[Agent_Embryo]

It's sad that this thread has to exist, but it's good that it does.

I actually learned in religion class in school that jihad meant holy war. See how easlily influenced people are by the system.

There was a time when I actually cared about religion(I'm officially a protestantic christian). Now I don't want anything to do with it. But thats my way of life. However, another thing in my way of life is to try not to judge someone by religion, looks or opinions. Hard though. But I've reached the conclusion:

Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colors.

I want to believe in peace and understanding. Trouble is, noone else seems to want the same.

Respect is the key....

(I could go on for hours, but I won't.)

Good initative anyway club_med

[Tom Jones]

It is nice that you gave a clearer explanation club_med. Actually, I don't see what is going on as a holy war... I see a lot of what has happened in the past now surfacing and the terrorism is just a part of the whole mess. I have friends from all different backgrounds....and it will always be that way. Good people are just that, good people....It has nothing to do with their religious views or their race.

I think one's religion, beliefs or any personal characteristics are irrelevant to this forum.

What matters is What you say, not who you are.

IMO.

[Toadman]

What really matters is what you do!

And it IS relevant when atrocities are performed in the name of such faith, whether fellow followers believe in it or not. Christianity has its extreme kooks who blow up Planned Parenthood(abortion)clinics as well. Many groups perform such deplorable acts in pursuit of their cause(PLO, IRA, KKK, Hamas, etc. etc.) However, Americans laws can/do suppress and prosecute those posing threats as found because we have freedoms and laws written to accomplish it, and it's in everyone's interests to protect others, foreign and domestic. The Ku Klux Klan(a racist organization in the US) will never likely blow up Mecca, Mexico City, or Beijing regardless of their doctrine.

However hell-bent mass destruction of the despised Free World in the name of Allah by *keyword*uncontrolled fanatic Muslims is an entirely different matter, whether supported by the Islamic masses or not, and THAT is what drives the USA's response. Don't Muslims answer to clerics? Or only to whomever twists doctrine to support their violent causes? Who polices such doctrine? Or is it ad-hoc? Is Islam so fragmented and dissected that uniform doctrine is impossible and unenforceable? If so, the problem lies with Muslims who shame your faith, do you not agree?

Not to pick a fight Club Med, but please explain why such fanatics are allowed to perform such evil acts in the name of a God you hold precious(or any deity/faith for that matter), yet NOT be hunted down, suppressed or punished for such acts by their flock? Is it because the Faith overrules all, the end justifies the means and no lack of sleep will exist over the deaths of a few million Infidels, where Muslims will silently nod while outwardly expressing regret to the world theater?

So... Al-Qaida is threatening biological attacks on the USA at the close of Ramadan. And I'm sure many Palestinians have their party favors ready again. Some things quite frankly take precedence over sensitivities to race, color, creed, orientation or religion or stupid animated Kermit gif's, when you delve into the very core of survival, imho. And the USA is most certainly at war with all implications thereof. We've got bigger fish to fry...

I'd like some in-depth perspectives..

Toad, you're right. What I meant was in the context of Forum members themselves. Maybe I didn't put it clearly.

[ClubMed]

Dear Toadman,

Corruption, poverty, lack of education, oppression, frustration and dictatorships are not the traits of a stable environment in which people can voice their opinions.

You want the ‘flock’ to suppress and punish such ideologies and their followers? How my friend?, How does one do this when one is oppressed? When one has no voice?. I don’t see any western nations helping the oppressed people of the middle east, do you?. All I see is western oil companies dealing with the dictatorships for profit. Lets face it, liberating nations does not generate profit. Im afraid the situation is not that simple.

Who said that us Muslims were silently nodding? CNN, NBC, FOX NEWS? How much do they know about the internal dynamics of the Muslim and Arab world, when they claim that ‘Jihad’ in Arabic means ‘holy war’???. Or when they show you 30-50 Palestinians rejoicing at acts of violence claiming this is a just representation of the entire Islamic community (1 billion)?.

My very own girlfriend (who’s an American Christian) once asked me “Why is it that the Quran preaches hatred towards Christianity?” I opened up an English copy of the Quran and showed her that our holy book was in fact preaching the exact opposite of what she had been told.

This is what I mean when I said we all have one common enemy, and that is ignorance.

You want an in-depth perspective? The Quran is the best one you’ll ever get; buy a copy (English) that includes a commentary.

IMO, we should avoid topics such as religion. It is pointless. All religions are great, IMO.

No religion is "better" than another.

Apart from tech topics, there's so much to discuss rather than sensitive subjects like religion.

Let us just stop all this. It degrades the status of an intellectual forum like this.

[ClubMed]

On the contrary shahani, I think such topics, if discussed with respect and politness can yield great benefits to all.

There are many questions that are being asked, it is a time of crisis and a time of chaos, there many rumours out there, there is a lot of misinformation and many misunderstandings.

I feel it would be a mistake to ignore these questions and leave them unanswerd.

This thread is fine, there is no flaming, nor is it a critical topic (IMO), I started it simply to point something out, something that had/has been misunderstood, thats all.

Any and all contributions are important and interesting.

Also, this thread is not intended to compare religions or to debate which one is better and which one is worse.

But you are right, it should all be discussed with caution.

[OuTpaTienT]

If you guys want a real eye-opener to some of the mindset of the middle east, then check out this website: http://www.memri.org/
They don't give you any pro-American spin, in fact they give no spin at all. The site consist soley of media articles (mostly from newspapers) of the Muslim communities in the region. Like I said, no spin...all articles are translated from Arabic to English and that's all.

Some of the stuff there will truly sicken you...frighten you...anger you...sadden you.
Some stuff is just so far "out there" it'll amuse you...at least until you realize that much of the population over there actually believes that "out there" stuff as true facts.
And some stuff, VERY LITTLE, but it's there, will give you hope. There's seems to be a very small percentile of the population that actually speaks with reason, logic and strength to stand up against the evils of terrorism.

Here are some snippets I cut 'n pasted as I was reading. Hopefully you'll go read some articles yourself and come to your own conclusion.

• Abu Hafs: "...I cannot conceal the fact that we here in Afghanistan, like hundreds of millions of Muslims throughout the world could not contain our joy when we saw America taste, for one day, what the Islamic people has been swallowing every day for decades because of the actions of the U.S., both directly and indirectly. We rejoiced at this..."
  
• "Although some were sorry about the killing of innocent Americans in Washington and New York, most of [our] people derived satisfaction from the insult to the American pride, and from the shaking of the faith that the American cowboy, Little Bush, places in the intelligence apparatuses and their agents throughout the world. There was nearly an Egyptian consensus on the matter, except for a few ministers who, in their hypocrisy, rushed to the American Embassy to ostentatiously offer their condolences."
  
• Immediately after the September 11 attacks, Sheikh Raid Sallah, the head of the Islamic movement in Israel , called on U.S. President George Bush to convert to Islam and thus solve all problems. Recently, Sheikh Sallah reiterated his call at a rally in the Arab town of Tamra (the Galilee): "Oh, peoples of the West… We say to you: We are the masters of the world and we are the repository of all good [in the world], because we are the 'the best people, delivered for mankind' [Koran, 3:111]. We do not hesitate, Oh Bush and Blair; we invite you to Islam, enter Islam, you and your peoples."
  
• "If the Americans knew that the Jews carried out the September 11 attacks they would do to them what Hitler did"
  
• "If Osama bin Laden is proven to be involved in the attacks on the U.S., I will make a statue of him and set it in my home; I will also hang his picture in my office. Because he has proven to us that the U.S., which we thought was an undefeatable force, can be humiliated."
  
• "As a lawyer, I say to Suspect No. 1, as the American government calls him: Oh Osama… you are a hero in the full sense of the word. [You possess] all the manly virtues, those [virtues] lacking in the half-men who control the Muslim and Arab resources (i.e. Arab rulers). For this reason, you will continue to live in our hearts and in our minds… Allah's peace, mercy, and blessings upon you; no peace, no mercy, and no blessings on the traitors and cowards who have been blinded to the truth by the pleasures of domination. May you eradicate America and its 'infinite justice'; victory to Islam and the Muslims."
  
• Here's one that falls under the catagory "Shyeah right!" -
  A Wave of Conversion to Islam in the U.S. Following September 11
  
• And this is truly sad -
  Ramadan TV Special: The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
  If you don't know, the "Elders of Zion" is a nothing but a hoax/conspiricy theory cooked up by people that just simply hate Jews. It's full of complete lies, some so unbelievable, it completely dumbfounds me that any person with a brain cell believes it. For example, did you know that many Rabii's routinely eat the flesh of Muslim newborn babies in their blood rituals? So why is this outlandish hoax so sad? Because the GOVERNMENT SPONSERED TV stations over there are airing this CRAP. And this TV special about "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"...it's a 30 part series!!! These are some seriously f***ed-up people.
  
• Oh, and you gotta love this one. This is an Arab columnist speaking his mind, as he does everyday in a major Arab paper. Here he is pretending to speak directory to Anthrax." -
  "In sound mind, I thank you and confess that I like you, I like you very much. May you continue to advance, to permeate, and to spread. If I may give you a word of advice, enter the air of those ‘symbols,' the water faucets from which they drink, and the pens with which they draft their traps and conspiracies against the wretched peoples… Turn the bodies of the tyrants into matches burning slowly and gradually, so that they understand that the truth belongs to Allah and that they should give those entitled to rights their rights."