Separation of Church and State: the leftist fallacy exposed.

wallie_x · September 9th, 2003, 06:40 PM

Few American educated people, it seems, have the ability to critically analyze political spin. Case in point: separation of church and state. The far left has embarked on a massive propaganda campaign to socialize the masses into believing that the above is an absolute. Religion, therefore, and any reference to God should be anathema in politics, leg-islation and enactment of law.

The historical and philosophical facts are quite different however. Our fore fathers never envisioned an absolute separation of church and state. Most of them were religious people. Their model for government was based mostly on separation of powers. In their mind, the church, as an organized entity, should hold no formal position in government. They did not say or imply that the church should have no voice in pronouncing political descent. Nor did they ever envision a government devoid of references to Judeo-Christian theology or idealisms; and they never believed that the government must be completely secular.

Unfortunately, many people believe the liberal left’s machinations without regard to these historical facts. Their argument states that more wars have been fought in the name of religion than of any other source. They cry: ‘the marriage of religion and politic has produced the crusades, Inquisition and the Taliban’ etc. What they fail to mention is the melding of the secular with absolute power. This has produced virulently greater horrors as evidenced in the persons of Stalin (20+ million dead) and Hitler (11+ million). Not to mention the killing fields of Cambodia and other secular genocide committed in the name of a greater social order.

In rebuttal: firstly, the Declaration of Independence itself is a religious document. The preamble states the primary premise from which all of the other premises follow. The premise is: that all people are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. These ‘rights’ are not endowed by the state, nor by any secular entity, be it government or king, but by God. Secondly, the framers of the Constitution wrote the latter and the Bill of Rights etc. because they believed that legislating such documents into law was God’s will. Their very core ethos as Christians made them draw the conclusions written within the documents. You cannot separate these documents from their Judeo-Christian roots without tearing them asunder and laying them waste. Simply, the ethics contained in our Constitution are Judeo-Christian. Therefore our constitution is essentially a religious document. Thus, separation of church and state as the far left sees it is complete fallacy.

Lastly, it is neither religion nor people of faith who have produced the horrors mention above. It is an evil that knows no boundaries. It has transcended all times, peoples and cultures whether secular or religious. In the Christian gospels Jesus vehemently condemned one sin in particular above all others. The reason is that this sin has the potential of producing the greatest amount of evil. It is none other than the greatest of the seven deadly sins: humanities tendency toward self-righteous pride. Hitler, Stalin, Usama Bin Laden, all of these have been inebriated by this great sin. So absolute is its power to blind that one, when caught in its grip, could conceive genocide as justifiable - even when done in the name of God.

Signed, wallie_x
(Sorry, I copeid this document straight out of MS Word format and forgot to delete the hyphens, thus the edit. No other parts have been changed. Edited again for clarity: paragraph separation only, no words added or deleted.)

Telexen · September 9th, 2003, 06:48 PM

Our fore fathers were religious, yes, so they never envisioned a true seperation of church and state - they were however open to other people's beliefs

It's not political leaders that keep the influence of religion over our country, it's the people who VOTE for these political leaders.

I'm not trying to defend religious power and the things it's caused ... I may hate it just as much as you. But you have to remember - the world isn't perfect, and neither are people. The USA and it's democratic system is FAR from perfect (and I don't mean that to flatter this country)...

Some people are just crazy and can actually believe they have the right to do things in the name of God. Punish those who do it wrongfully, and let those who just look to God for spiritual health and wellbeing live the way they want to live.

Gomer · September 9th, 2003, 07:03 PM

can you crack that into a few different paragraphs for me?

J-Excel · September 9th, 2003, 07:06 PM

Blah, blah, blah

Our government is and should be religion-neutral. Not pro Christian, not pro Jewish, not pro Muslim, not pro Atheist, not pro Hindu, not pro any religion. This has been debated numerous times in court. And you lost.

shahani · September 9th, 2003, 07:19 PM

Nice essay. But its all your opinion.

Full of inferences and conclusions which you find acceptable.

While I commend you on the quality of writing and your perspective, I do not agree with 99% of it. I also think few people would be able to accept all those conclusions/inferences/deductions you make.

There is no fallacy. You have merely interpreted history to fit your narrow viewpoint.

Others will interpret as they see fit.

M_Six · September 9th, 2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

So absolute is its power to blind that one, when caught in its grip, could conceive genocide as justifiable - even when done in the name of God.

That is EXACTLY what scares me the most about the Christian right.

daveleau · September 9th, 2003, 11:33 PM

Out-fricking-standing!

You have paraphrased the entire idea of how the liberal left is using the church's disfavor with the general public because of several issues to discriminate against a large portion of Americans. They are doing nothing less than eroding away the Constitution, which ironically, most of them fight for in other arguments. It is amazing how people march rout-step with the media and the ACLU on this issue and completely ignore the facts. It is truly sad how closed some are on this matter. I only hope that people realize the truth before it is too late for our nation and more-importantly, too late for them in a more personal way.

no1_vern · September 9th, 2003, 11:48 PM

Hi Wallie_x,

Great speech. Thank you for sharing your view, I agree whole heartedly with you.

Too many of the self interested groups have a mission to destroy God in our nation. I believe that if God disappears from the United States, the US will disappear from this earth.

Vern

Gomer · September 9th, 2003, 11:50 PM

Quote:

too late for them in a more personal way

Seeing as how it is late in the game for me here, I realize it may be getting too late for myself in a more personal way.

Will any God do, or is there a particular one I need to follow to guarantee my everlasting salvation? When it comes to eternal damnation you need to get this stuff right the first time I take it.

M_Six · September 9th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Obviously 250 million Buddhists are wrong.

Then there's tens of millions of Hindus. They're obviously screwed. Of course we all know the Muslims are going straight to hell. The Jews of course messed up way early on, so there's no hope for them. And you know those Catholics with all their, ahem...problems. Doesn't leave much to wonder about, eh?