Recovery

**daveleau** · October 1st, 2003, 10:38 AM

It is good to see our economy recovering the way it is.

The measure for our economy over the past few years has been the NYSE Dow Jones Ind Average. While this is not a great measure, it does tell us something about our economy. Our DJIA is up to 9400 and that is a sure sign of recovery over the high 7000 levels we saw earlier this year. It sure looks like the Bush tax incentives are starting to work. Hopefully more and more jobs will continue to be created. Of course, the economy appears to be in the toilet as far as the unemployed individual goes. Hopefully, there will be fewer and fewer unemployed people as we see our economy recovering. Right now the NYSE DJIA is at its highest level since June of 2002. And the unemployment rates dropped this month to 6.1% (about half of the unemployed have been unemployed for 27 weeks-3%) . This continues the downward trend in unemployment rates that almost takes us to the level we were at this time last year (5.8%). (numbers are from NYSE.com, CNN.com and twincityjournal.com)

So here's to recovery! It's not completely over and we are not out of the woods, but it is at least on a steady upturn over the past few months. Lets hope it continues and hope that the tax cutting nay-sayers can be proven wrong again (why do they never learn).

A job boom ont he horizon may make things look rosy again. Reagan, Kennedy, Bush and Clinton all cut taxes to create jobs and stimulate the economy, and they all had stellar economic numbers. Only Bush Sr was not reelected, and that was partly because of his lack of campaigning due to the fact that no Democrats wanted to take him on since he had the highest job approval rating of any president ever. Soon we will see the complete turnaround of the economy as the tax cuts take effect. We have already begun to see some effects, and things should continue to get better and better if history repeats itself for the 5th time.

**shahani** · October 1st, 2003, 10:43 AM

I hope your words are prescient.

**Theophylact** · October 1st, 2003, 11:37 AM

DJIA, S&P and NASDAQ all down last week; consumer confidence index sharply down. (New unemployment claims were down --because of the hurricane; you can't file when the unemployment offices are closed!)

You may be right, daveleau, but to me this "recovery" still looks pretty feeble.

**daveleau** · October 1st, 2003, 11:55 AM

Really, Theophylact, you can look at any peak in history and find a time near it where there was a down point. The trend is up. If you look at the way things have progressed over the past few months, it looks good!

**shahani** · October 1st, 2003, 11:55 AM

With the $87 Billion committed to Iraq, things are gonna be tough.

**daveleau** · October 1st, 2003, 12:35 PM

Ok. Guys. Looking at the facts here, so please leave conjecture and half-truths out. You guys are two for two in not doing this so far. I know that limiting this thread to facts will pretty much completely mute both of you guys, but I gotta insist on facts only (and I do mean complete picture facts) please.

Shahani, your above statement is a number taken from an article that has not taken many factors into account (the Iraqi's money spent to cover the 87 bil). Are aware that we are selling some of their assets to fund their rebuilding? And that that number is not taking things like this into account? The economy has been rebounding despite the money needed to rebuild the former threat to our national (and personal) security.

I know it is killing both of you that there is a positive political post on this forum, but you guys are going to have to deal with the fact that your tear-down-tactics and your negative politics are not the monopoly right now, nor are they reality. You'll have to wait a day or two before you can get back to your uninterrupted "Oh-woe-is-me" world that you two (and a few others) have so deftly created here.

**osprey4** · October 1st, 2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Theophylact
DJIA, S&P and NASDAQ all down last week; consumer confidence index sharply down.

Uh, that's like saying there's no global warming because it cooled off yesterday in south Jersey.

**shahani** · October 1st, 2003, 12:54 PM

Yeah, its like 50 degrees outside.

But, reverting to Daves post, may I ask you a simple question?

Or two?

What are the facts?

As you see things?

Or as I see things?

Are our perspectives mutually exclusive? And hence either your facts are right or mine?

Or are there shades of interpretation?

As to negative/tear-down politics, I'm afraid it's the Bush Administration and their morally and ethically questionable policies and decisions that are responsible.

We are simply debating the consequences.

**daveleau** · October 1st, 2003, 12:58 PM

What is wrong with the facts I have offered so far?

**shahani** · October 1st, 2003, 01:10 PM

Well, for one, Bush has asked for $87 Billion from Congress for the Iraqi fiasco. This is the US resource required for the rebuilding and peacekeeping effort.

Iraqi monies have not been figured into this. $87 Bilion is what Bush asked for in a nationally televised speech last month.

Now, granted, a lot of this money will flow back to US Companies (Halliburton and others) associated with Cheney and Bush as kickbacks or as "legitimate" profits. We can't say for sure. And Bush Family oil companies will also get some of the spoils.

But a lot of this $87 billion will be used in Iraq to rebuild what Bush destroyed unnecessarily. The entire country was bombed and all infrastructure will need rebuilding.

At US taxpayer cost.

Had this unnecessary war not been declared, perhaps some of the funds could have helped in infrastructure projects here to provide employment and profits to legitimate companies instead of Bush-Cheney companies.

**daveleau** · October 1st, 2003, 01:15 PM

in response to your third paragraph: That is slanderous and I wish you could be sued for your slanderous comments. If you had any political power, you would be. You can not, in America, make untrue or conjectural comments in that way.

The war was not unnecessary, period. If you think that the second coming of Hitler should have been in power, then I am very worried about our society. The parallels are obvious if you would just take your blinders off.

Did you know that we are selling Iraqi resources to fund their rebuilding?

**shahani** · October 1st, 2003, 01:26 PM

A slanderous statement is a false statement. Firstly I have not made a false statement because Halliburton and Bush family associated companies in Texas (oil drilling, refining, transport) will benefit from the aftermath of the war.

I have also said "We can't say for sure" because of the cover ups that are possible in such situations. But it seems too much of a coincidence.

Yes, Iraqi oil will be sold to fund rebuilding. But the $87 Billion is in addition to that. It is the monies US taxpayers will be responsible for.

Iraqi oil infrastructure is in shambles and will take years to repair/replace. And it will not happen unless hostilities cease because the pipelines keep getting blown up.

Any way you look at it, Bush made a terrible mistake invading Iraq. There were other methods available to remove Saddam. After all, didn't his two sons get murdered by the Marines? Couldn't he have been err....taken out by CIA spooks?

Why kill so many people and destroy an entire country just to replace Saddam?