Ultimate Notebook Choice, Alienware and Sager, plus the 3.06 GHz Controversy?

[racer rich]

Hello. I am totally new to the world of laptop computers. There are some areas and subjects in which I am not too familar with, so I will ask some questions regarding them.

Since my 6-year old Micron Home MPC Desktop computer is somewhat outdated, and is starting to lack in the ability to do some common tasks, I have decided to purchase another computer. This time around I would like to purchase a laptop. Just like I layed out $4000 in 97 to buy the cream of the crop desktop, I am willing to pay top dollar for the cream of the crop laptop. I am pretty much looking for the best of the best.

After reading some ads and articles in Computer Shopper magazine, and searching the web for various information, I believe I have somewhat of a generalized idea of which manufacturers produce the highest-tech units. Basically I have narrowed my choices down to Alienware and Sager.

I have read some threads on this forum, and I have noticed the debate between them (all 3). I would like to "beat the dead horse" and leviate this topic once again. Please give me some information on these systems and how they compare with one another. What are the pros and cons of both units? Bacially which unit is a better, more advanced laptop?

I have one question about laptop displays. I noticed the Sager NP8886v comes with a 15.7 inch Display while the Alienware Area 51 comes with a 15 inch Display. Apart from the difference in size, (the 15.7 inch is bigger), what difference (advantage and disadvantage) in performance will the bigger display give? I believe I have read somewhere that the 15 inch monitor will give somewhat of a clearer picture, and have more resolution over the 15.7 inch display. Is this true? What are other differences in performance and clarity between the two?

Also, is there any new or expected releases of any software/hardware updates for laptop computers anytime soon (Displays, Processors, etc)? Any new technology that is supposed to be released soon? I don't want to purchase a laptop now and in a month have a better, more advanced unit come about and make mine outdated. Please tell me of all the latest rumors and expected releases of the laptop computer industry.

On a side note, I noticed the Alienware is now available with the new Pentium 4 3.06 GHz processor. I have noticed they are the ONLY manufacturer that offers this. Can someone tell me why that is? I looked for any answer to that question and I have somewhat of an interesting and conflicting story on this.

I recently called up the sales department at INTEL to inquire about other manufacturers that offer 3.06 GHz processors in their laptops. The gentleman I spoke with was completely shocked that ANY laptop on the market has this processor. He stated that this processor produces a TREMENDOUS amount of heat and would "burn-up" any laptop in nearly 6 hours. I then told him of the Alienware's heatsink chassis and he still was skeptical. He then spoke with an engineer and told me there is no heatsinks, fans, etc, that will enable that processor to work properly (without overheating) in a laptop. He stated "the 3.06 GHz processor produces a tremendous amount of heat which is impossible to function properly in the extremely tight confinements of a laptop computer". The gentleman recommended me NOT to buy that computer. He stated INTEL will not cover or warrant any defects or problems that WILL occur due to it being a laptop. He stated IF you do buy it, while reiterating that it is not recommended, make sure you get a written statement from Alienware that they will replace/repair any defects that occur. After being somewhat shocked and bewildered, I thanked him for his information and time and proceeded to call Alienware.

When I called Alienware I was hoping to receive the same detailed explanation that I got from INTEL, but the reply was rather terse and blunt. I told him of this and basically the reply was: "If it burns up the warranty will cover it." I asked if they are willing to give a written response but the gentleman told me that is what the warranty is for.

I am somewhat confused about all of this. The gentleman and engineers at INTEL state it is completely impossible for a 3.06 GHz processor to function in a laptop, while Alienware sells this product and states that it will function completely properly and flawlessly.

I feel at one side of this story I am horribly misinformed. Due to being a laptop (and computer) novice I am not sure which side of the story is the fallacy. I will ask you fine experts to please clarify this for me.

I am thinking that INTEL themselves should know the capabilities of their own processors? I am also thinking that Alienware should know the capability of their laptops? This is where I reach a contradiction.

I have researched this dillemma and really have found no information that solidifies either side of the story. I think (not sure) I have read somewhere on here that in January Sager might be releasing their laptops with 3.06 GHz processors, but I am not totally sure. I also called up Xtremenotebooks.com and he stated he knows of a competitor that is pre-ordering 3.06 GHz processors right now, and they are due out soon. I spoke with Sager themselves at was told 3.06 GHz are not available. Can anyone please clarify this for me?

**Please note I am not trying to slander or demerit any manufacturer or anyone here. I am somewhat confused of this and would like to get other opinions on this. Before I lay out nearly $4000.00 I would like to know if I am getting a potential lemon or not.

Thank you for considering to answer all of these questions. Your help and advice in this matter is greatly appreciatted.

[aviax]

To answer your first question about displays, the Alienware Area 51m and HiveMindm (AKA Sager 5660 (also AKA Prostar 5694) and Sager 5620, respectively) can be bought with UXGA displays(1600x1200), SXGA+ displays (1400x1050), or SXGA displays (1280x1024), while the 8886 (or Prostar 8894..?) is currently available only with a SXGA display. In terms of the 5660 vs. the 8886, people seems to say that the 5660 is brighter, while the 8886 has richer colors.

As far as the 3.06 CPU, the heat does seem to be an issue for concern. Note that the Alienware, while it offers the 3.06, may not have a MOBO/bios uograde to enable the hyperthreading ability of this chip, and no one I've communicated with knows if such an upgrade will ever become available.

As far as Sager vs. Alienware, I'm going to go against the prevailing wisdom and say go ahead and consider the Alienware. I'm certain I read a review that talked about both side by side, and the reviewer said the Alienware for some reason had better performance than an identically outfitted Sager. I know that Alienware offers some customized tweak package ('Adrenalin' OSLT...).

Although you shouldn't just take my opinion, I suggest you also check out sagerforums.com.

[lastEvolution]

Whats the max resoution for the Mobility Radeo 7500 64MB DDR? It says 1400x1050 on the site (Alienware), but the Hive'Mindm has a 1600x1200 display.

[vanfanel]

the sager 5660 is for all intents and purposes identical to the alienware 51m. A recent review on PCGamer of the 51m had 3dmarks which were virtually identical to the many 5660 scores I've seen (about 7100) Aside from the spiffy paint jobs there really isn't much else difference.

I doubt intel will tell you that desktop cpus work fine in laptops when they make a bundle charging premium prices for mobile P4s

Regarding the 3ghz P4, a sager 5660 user has already replaced his 2.8 with a 3.06P4 without a hitch. Hyperthreading was disabled of course but no heat related issues have come up as of yet. You can find this information on the www.sagerforums.com board.

If you are still interested in seeing the differences between the alienware 51m and the sager8886 I suggest you check out the multitude of threads on the sagerforums (5660 vs. 8886) There are quite a few threads regarding this and they will probably give you a very good idea on the pros and cons of each.

[Ruahrc]

Just a quick comment on the 3.06 chip thing- although I have not had any personal experience with a 3.06GHz laptop I am sure that if they have released it for sale then it works. The alienware warranty (or any other warranty) will cover a dead laptop due to overheating. If it doesn't- you should'nt be buying from them in the first place.

Also just to make sure you are aware- these 3.06GHz laptops only operate at their full speed when plugged into AC power. The CPU would drain far too much battery power to run at 3.06GHz and have acceptable battery life. I believe that this is true of the high-speed laptops (or maybe just laptops that use desktop cpu's... Anyways the point is make sure you research this function in the laptop you purchase), they will operate slower on battery power.

HTH

Ruahrc

[claco]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruahrc
they will operate slower on battery power.

Only if you let it. In most cases, you can turn this behaviour off in the BIOS, yielding full speed on battery power.

[wakeman]

In reply to new technology coming out, there always will. I am also looking at the high performance laptops and thinking on waiting for two new items coming out.

I don't beleive the graphics card on these laptops are upgradable like the proccesors are, so I'd wait for the geforce fx when it come to a mobile form. The destop form is coming out in late January.

Also I believe the motherboard is not upgradable and since the P4 is getting older, although it might seem far away I believe the P5 will be coming out late next year.

[kieran]

do the normal pentiums actually have speedstep???
i don't think so.
which would then mean, that a laptop with a 3gig processor would have very short battery times.

i say: if you are willing to pay some money, go for the high end mobile processor rather than a high end desktop one.

how long of a warranty does alienware give on that laptop?
materials of all sorts tend to degrade faster under higher temperatures.
the formula i think is every 10C double the reactivity, hnece reduce lifetime.
i would believe intels engineers, i think who builds processors knows his business.
buy a 3gig desktop only if you get lifetime guarantee on the processor, because it will never ever last 5 years, probably only until the warranty runs out, i think.

[vanfanel]

Quote:

Originally posted by kieran
do the normal pentiums actually have speedstep???
i don't think so.
which would then mean, that a laptop with a 3gig processor would have very short battery times.

i say: if you are willing to pay some money, go for the high end mobile processor rather than a high end desktop one.

how long of a warranty does alienware give on that laptop?
materials of all sorts tend to degrade faster under higher temperatures.
the formula i think is every 10C double the reactivity, hnece reduce lifetime.
i would believe intels engineers, i think who builds processors knows his business.
buy a 3gig desktop only if you get lifetime guarantee on the processor, because it will never ever last 5 years, probably only until the warranty runs out, i think.

I know the sager models do offer downclocking of the P4 in the bios.

Unless you have hard evidence on the actual reliability of laptops with desktop processors be careful with the statements you make. Aside from toshiba's earlier attempts I have not heard of any desktop cpus burning out.

Also don't buy into what intel tells you. They'll tell you that it's impossible to have a 2.8-3.06 desktop P4 in a laptop and they'd be surprised to see one. They obviously don't do their own homework. There are many vendors selling desktop cpus in laptops most noteably with the clevo notebook models (used by sager, alienware, prostar, voodoo, hypersonic, velocity micro)

If battery life is not an issue for you (as with most people using this for a desktop replacement) than I say go for 2.8P4 laptop (sager would be my choice). If battery life is important than go with the 2.0-2.2 mobile P4 (dell, ibm or compaq would be my choice)

[kieran]

i have seen a lot of laptops with 2.4desktop cpu's, even dell does it. i don't argue about desktop cpu's in laptops in general.
but a 2.4 is not different in the processor architecture than the one at 3. also the mobile cpu's are not much different there.
so how come, intel does not offer mobile 3g?

the 3g processor, in particular a desktop cpu will get much warmer than a 2.4 that other vendors put in, wich invariably WILL reduce it's lifetime, there's no magic against that.
question is: when?

and:
it is right, i do not have experience about the lifetime of desktop cpu's in notebooks, particularly a 3g one.
but NO ONE out there has ANY experience with 3g processors in desktops, let alone laptops, at this time.
or would "i unpacked my new comp and it's runnung fine now for almost 2 weeks" be consirdered experience?
for now, all you can do is make some rough calculations and then decide if it will work or not.
the intel engineers apparently think it will not, so why not stick to 2.4 or maybe even 2.8?