Should I upgrade from my X-FI PCI to a Xonar PCI-e?

[ZeroAce]

I was a big fan of soundblaster back in the day, but suffering with the problems of the X-FI has soured me to them.

I am looking for a card that will give me great EAX sound in games, but also offer top quality music playback.
I don't really want to compromise one for the other, but Xonar claims to support EAX in games as well as creative can.

Problems with XFI
1. I bought the PCI version of the X-FI, but later upgraded to a mobo that supports PCIe. And the PCIe version is shielded from interference while the PCI is not.
2. The X-FI's sound quality can degrade after it's been on a while, with distortion and pops, forcing me to restart. Unsure if this is a problem with windows or the card.
3. The X-FI is poorly supported by Vista. Half my games won't realize their full sound potential in terms of EAX support. It worked fine under XP but even after all this time soundblaster can't get their act together supporting vista.
I use creative alchemy, but half the time it either doesn't work or ends up causing instability or lag.

Will Xonar give me problems and incompatability with vista?

[DoubleK]

Were you one of the people duped into getting an XFi without Xram? Creative really killed their market share with that flub but as most pc sound cards are still based on their reference design I do not think they care (royalties). Which model card do you have?

While I have experienced issues with my XFi in relation to PCI bus bandwidth on a certain motherboard whereas I had to either pull the 2nd channel of ram or pull my xfi (I pulled the ram) my new motherboard has zero of the problems with the same card (Xfi XtremeMusic) as did my older board.

None of this was even an issue until I upgraded to Windows 7 64 bit from XP 32 bit on either board. My sincere and tested guess is that it isn't Creatives fault. If anything my Xfi works better now as W7 has native drivers built into the OS and does not require the separate and buggy Creative Console.

[ZeroAce]

I have no idea.
This is the one I bought:
Newegg.com - Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion 70SB046A00003 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Sound Cards
Two and a half years ago.
Worked fine under XP, then I "upgraded" to vista for DX10 and it's been nothing but trouble since.

I could potentially upgrade to windows 7, but the last thing I want to do is run into even more compatability issues with various games and programs.

[DoubleK]

So if it worked fine in XP it isn't Creative's fault.

Did you also go from 32 bit XP to 64 bit Vista?

[ZeroAce]

It is their fault, their hardware or software is not fully compatible.

It's vista 32 bit.

[DoubleK]

Lmao, I have plenty of clanmates that use the xfi (fatality included) in XP, Vista and Wndows 7 in 32/64 bit also except XP (does anyone run 64 bit XP) and I was the only person out of a dozen or so that had issues and I already shared some insight why. If you search my posts you can explore more in detail.

I guarantee that if you do not have a broken xfi that the devil is in the drivers my friend. As a longtime Creative fan you know that their drivers are passable and software strewn with peril.

Windows 7 is the first OS I have seen that effectively takes control of the 3rd party driver as opposed to the 3rd party driver taking control of Windows and thusly confusing the shit out of people changing settings behind your back between the Windows speaker and microphone config and the driver.

Simply put there are better sound cards out there for music and movies. Creative is the authority in EAX. I don't like it either or I would own an HT Omega. Look at how people love those sound cards and gasp at its horrible EAX in game.

[DoubleK]

When researching issues with my Xfi that turned out to be a pcie bus bandwidth issue on an older motherboard I did see many XFi owners were pleased with Auzentechs drivers (xfi chip). I thought I would mention that and you could give it a whirl. Do you clean your registry between driver installs? Try JUST the 32 bit vista driver with no other Creative software?

[bigBonehead]

+1 ^^

Try this reg cleaner: CCleaner - Home

[ZeroAce]

I've reinstalled it from a fresh OS several times over the years.
I'm using a normal PCI version, not PCIe, if that matters.

I don't see how it could be a RAM issue or a driver issue when they have released a program specifically to deal with the problems of vista compatability - Creative alchemy.

The issue here is that EAX is disabled in most of my older games, because vista directsound audio is all software based now or something and cannot use the X-FI hardware the way it was meant to be.
So all those past games that sounded amazing in EAX on XP either won't work in vista or it sounds bland.

I use creative alchemy to get around that, but it's a total crapshoot. Most of the time it doesn't work, makes things unstable, causes massive lag, or the sound quality is still not as good as it should be.

Now, if there's another way I can get around these issues without replacing the card itself I'd love to know.

From what I've read so far, it seems the Xonar produces EAX almost as good as X-FI, but has far better compatability with vista, along with better music.
Vista has been a very depressing experience as a gamer because several of my older games won't run, have problems, and most games I haven don't sound as good as they should.

[DoubleK]

For your amusement, I know I was amused! http://www.techimo.com/forum/applica...low-lag-2.html

What are your system specs? Depending I think I would upgrade to Windows 7 before I purchased a new sound card. Your Xfi issue will be tied more into incompatibilities between your OS and Motherboards pci bus/bandwidth more than anything else.

I agree absolutely that your xfi should function on Vista it's somebody's fault besides yours.

I only have the pci version also and have never tried XFi on Vista. I read about the all the Vista gaming clusterpoo though, sorry!

I would uninstall, clean and try JUST the driver. Then I would add Alchemy if the driver will not work. If you have tried that then clean and try these drivers:
http://dl.technewshw.com/drivers//PA...er%20V1.40.exe

Read all about them:

Fall/Winter Pax Edtion sets. More set be added later. One Thread. - Page 5

Follow his instructions and do not cut corners and let me know if they turn out for you. I am interested! Thanks.

[ZeroAce]

Intel core duo E6850
ASUS P5N-D
4gig DDR2
Currently have no video card, will either RMA the 8800GTX or buy an ATI HD 5850

If I thought upgrading to win7 would solve the program I'd consider it, but after the way they screwed me over with vista I'm relunctant. The last thing I need is to run into even more software and harware problems.
I'd also love to be able to access all my RAM in a 64 bit version, but won't that cause even more incompatability problems with older games?

[DoubleK]

Wow! Did you read my Windows 7 experience at all? Honestly take the time! I would not try any of the drivers I listed unless your bored and want to try those Pax.

Windows 7 is an awesome OS and I would not trade back to XP if you paid me let alone Vista.

If you read my post you would see that I also had an Asus P5 board. I had the Asus P5N32SliSe Deluxe. It is a piece of garbage.

Do not believe me? Pull all of the ram except for Channel A, Make sure you look at the mobo book. On that board Channel A should be the 1st and 3rd ram slots (diff colors, I know stupid right?) Disable UAC for the time being, uninstall all Creative Drivers and software, in Device Manager uninstall your sound card, cleanup and then scrub that registry several times with CCleaner. Reboot and install JUST the driver (no alchemy) and tell me I told you so

Whose fault is it now?

[ZeroAce]

I'm finding it hard to follow exactly what you're saying. Are you saying EAX works fully for you in any game without need for alchemy since you resolved a motherboard problem?

The pops and hiss are not a big concern, as it's not common, and solved by restarting after the PC has been on for a long time.

My main concern is the compatability problems with vista and EAX, something I doubt I can blame on the motherboard.

[DoubleK]

It was a long drawn out problem indeed and I guess I don't blame you for wanting the cliff notes handed to you.

I will do that once you pull the other two sticks of ram out of the 2nd ram channel, slots 2 and 4 and uninstall all creative drivers, uninstall card from device manager, scrub your files and registry with ccleaner, reboot, install ONLY the Creative device driver (at first and then alchemy if need be).

Will it work now?

[ZeroAce]

Will what work?
What exactly am I trying to fix by doing this?

[DoubleK]

You are going to make your Xfi work in Vista, regardless you seem combative and resigned to the Xonar. So be it, its a good card from what others say.

[ZeroAce]

I'm not combative, I'm trying to understand.

My X-FI already works in Vista.
The EAX doesn't.
No EAX works in vista as far as I know because it doesn't support hardware based soundcards anymore.
Creative alchemy gets around this but half the time it doesn't work well.

So I'm asking again, what exactly are you saying will be "fixed"? Are you saying tht creative alchemy support will be fixed, or that EAX support will be fixed without the need for creative alchemy?


The only reason I'm considering Xonar:
Because if EAX doesn't work in vista anyways, why am I bothering with a creative card? And supposedly Xonar has better music quality.
Ancillary to that, I'd be able to get the PCI-E version and shielded version of the Xonar, as my current X-Fi is unshielded and PCI.
However, if there is still legitimate reason to have a creative card in Vista for gaming, I'd probably keep it.

[DoubleK]

Ah my apologies Ace! I reread your post and see it is ONLY EAX giving you problems correct?

My issues were totally separate from you, I could not even get the XFi, Mobo and W7 to play nicely! It was the mobo.

Anyways knowing nothing about your specific issue now but earnestly wanting to see your issue resolved I have scoured several other tech sites I frequent and came across incompatibilities with program "Host OpenAL (ADI)" if I recall XP had it simply listed as OpenAL as does Windows 7.

I know its a goose chase (I would have already sent you on two) but what do you have to lose? I realize that openAL is installed with the Creative drivers but others opinions is that you may have openAL from an onboard audio Windows Update as opposed to the correct one with the driver. It would seem to me that as long as Creative put out a driver newer then what Microsoft was offering it should have updated to the Creative drivers openAL platform.

Again my apologies over the confusion and my speed reading (lack thereof) ability.

[ZeroAce]

I appreciate you taking the time to help.

My video card is RMAing so I can't test it right now, but I'll try to see if there is a conflict with onboard audio once it's back up and running.
Maybe it was reenabled or bios or windows update overwrote the drivers?

The reason I asked for a comparison between my card and the xonar essence is because I may end up replacing several PC components and was looking into the possibilty of upgrading my soundcard along with it in order to get the best out of top end speakers and headphones with music, considering that EAX hasn't been working well anyway.
Although if the difference is slightly and EAX still worth having, I probably won't considering the $200 price tag.

Also, reading some horror stories about ASUS tech support has me leery of buying a card that only they offer.

[DoubleK]

Did you have the onboard audio disabled in the bios before you installed Vista?

Asus and most companies tech support generally only works when you threaten to RMA and then the help is marginal at best. Call back several times until you get someone that knows more than you is my general experience.

You have an awesome sound card and a shitty Vista IMO, if you are upgrading components why not switch to Windows 7 64 bit and truly utilize that new hardware?

X58 based motherboard
socket 1366 processor
triple channel ram
Windows 7 64 bit

If you have a case and everything else, honestly about $700

Pissed off like me as your computer was not even that old and the parts were not technically broken or outdated? I also run high end audio and have to tell you that 2 hours of Bad Company 2 with War Tapes enabled (audio setting) gives me more ptsd then when I was actually in the suck.

I run nice Klipsch 5.1 400 watt speakers that I never get to use so I purchased Razers The Razer Store Online Store - Razer Barracuda™ HP-1 5.1 Channel Gaming Headphones and while they are the best gaming set I have ever heard (powered sub, mic) would quit gaming if I had to go back to onboard audio and a cheaper headset.