+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    almost Virginia
    Posts
    11,564
    Blog Entries
    2

    Wireless networking > 500' through 100' of trees

    Who has some ideas for me. My brother inlaws house is just next door, through some trees and a mere 500 foot or so. Does any one have a consumer grade product that might be able to overcome the losses with such a scenario.

    look at this link to get some idea of what i am up against.

    http://www.techimo.com/forum/attachm...&postid=214585

  2. #2
    addicted DVNT1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,103
    With a tall enough antenna(s) you could get line of site above the trees. Then using directional antennas you could make a wireless connection. You could use pringle cans to help make directional antennas.

    see http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448

    and http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html

    and maybe even http://www.seattlewireless.net/




    ...you have a zip line? sounds like fun

  3. #3
    Goverment property now GroundZero3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    34,986
    Blog Entries
    64


    DVNT1 thanks for the sites!!! i have some playing around to do with my lappy!!

  4. #4
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    almost Virginia
    Posts
    11,564
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks DVNT

    Quite a haul to the top of the trees they are topping out around 60 '. will have to see what I can do.

    I guess I could wire a hub to the other side of the trees and get Line of sight as well
    Last edited by Epidemic; April 24th, 2002 at 01:53 PM.

  5. #5
    addicted DVNT1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,103
    Not having LOS may still work but this isn't my area of expertise.

  6. #6
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    almost Virginia
    Posts
    11,564
    Blog Entries
    2
    I guess what I need is the most power and gain if I want to pass through the trees. It is only about 100 feet of trees. If I could get the gain high enough I could penetrate the trees. 2Ghz is not stopped by trees just pounded.

    I guess I will have to break out the spec analyzer and a signal source and experiment.

    But I am looking for Wireless lan with external antenna connections so I can choose the antenna. and I am looking for the best rx sensitivity and power.

  7. #7
    addicted DVNT1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,103
    Orinocco cards have a place for an external connector but it is a proprietary connector.

    I understand some other cards have more generic connectors..I think it was in one of those links I posted above.

  8. #8
    Free Thinker M_Six's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Charleston, Illinois
    Posts
    4,521
    Linksys has a router with a 400m+ outdoor range. Might be worth it. It's not "line-of-site", so the trees shouldn't matter.

    I think Linksys is supposed to be developing a point-to-point system with a wireless router one each end.
    You can't fix stupidity.

  9. #9
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    almost Virginia
    Posts
    11,564
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks m_six I will look at that

  10. #10
    Human voltmeter DanU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    4,214
    M_Six, i think Linksys used the term "outdoor" to mean line-of-sight. Trees ALWAYS matter for microwave transmissions.

    Hmmm.... establishing a 2.4GHz link through 500 feet of dense forest seems unlikely with low-power transmitters, but the only way to know for sure is to try it.

    Your best bet is to put the antennas as high as you can and use high-gain antennas (like the home-made pringles can-tenna)

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    870
    The range spec for that router IS line of sight outdoor use. I didn't look at the PDF or data sheet so maybe you have to read between the lines but the max outdoor range for any 802.11b product is understood line of sight. As far as 500 feet goes with tree coverage. Nope. If you have some pockets of clearing in the canopy that you can shoot through then you might have a shot. Perhaps at a lower data rate if you have very minor tree obstructions like pine needles or leaves. If you have tree trunks in the way then forget about it at the default power setting. Amping the radio may help you but your only good bet without line of sight and 802.11b hardware is directional antennas above the tree line. There are Near and Non line of sight wireless PtoP and PtoMP bridging solutions. Look at Wi-LAN's BWS 3000 series

    http://www.wi-lan.com/news/press245.html


    and Western Multiplex

    http://www.wmux.com/products/pmp_providers.html

    Breezecom's:

    http://www.waverider.com/Library/NLOS_Starter_Kit.PDF

    You WILL PAY for these solutions however.

  12. #12
    Free Thinker M_Six's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Charleston, Illinois
    Posts
    4,521
    I never claimed that the Linksys would get the max range with the trees in the way, but the max range is 475 meters. Epidemic only needs 500 feet. And as far as I've ever seen, 802.11b is RF and hence not line-of-sight. Bridgewater State College in Massachusetts has the entire campus set up for wireless. You can be ANYWHERE on campus and use the system, trees or no trees. True, the max range is sensitive to obstructions, but the Linksys router may still have the power needed. In any case, I would strongly advise you to call Linksys support and ask them first. The Linksys solution, if it will work, will be the least expensive one.
    You can't fix stupidity.

  13. #13
    addicted DVNT1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,103
    I read Kwebb's statement to mean the max. range was based on LOS (not that wireless connections won't work without LOS). Therefore throw in any obstructions and the you will not achieve the max range anymore. I would think connecting at the max. range would mean you connect at the lowest speed too, maybe as slow as 1mbps.

    If you do go through with this Epidemic, please post your results because we're all interested.


    BTW, I have setup wireless and do use/suppport it daily in factory & office environment. I do understand that the signal can penetrate walls (some better than others) and that it is greatly affected by surrounding equipment.
    Last edited by DVNT1; April 29th, 2002 at 06:45 AM.

  14. #14
    MR Meek and Mild Epidemic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    almost Virginia
    Posts
    11,564
    Blog Entries
    2
    DVNT1,

    I will tell every one if my brother in law comes up with the green to finance my venture. I am the one springing for the cable. He would have to eat the rest if he wants to leave the world of dialup.

    I will probably perform a CW test to figure out the losses. Simply put I will generate a fixed signal and measure it at the destination. I will probably have to wait a month for that to insure that the trees are fully loaded as well as the scrub.

    I will also experiment with some of my high gain antenna's as they are approaching 20 dBd gain. I think they are working up to the 2 ghz range. my antennas are centered around 1.9 ghz though have to see what the miss match will cause.

    I will pass on my knowlege. Of course I would never use a high gain antenna in my final setup as it might violate some laws. ahem!

  15. #15
    Human voltmeter DanU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    4,214
    You can calculate your maximum allowable ERP under the FCC's part 15 rules, section 15.247:
    15.247(b)(1) The maximum peak output power of the intentional radiator shall not exceed the following: For frequency hopping systems operating in the 2400-2483.5 MHz band employing at least 75 hopping channels, all frequency hopping systems in the 5725-5850 MHz band, and all direct sequence systems: 1 watt. For all other frequency hopping systems in the 2400-2483.5 MHz band: 0.125 watts.
    and
    15.247(b)(3)(i) Systems operating in the 2400-2483.5 MHz band that are used exclusively for fixed, point-to-point operations may employ transmitting antennas with directional gain greater than 6 dBi provided the maximum peak output power of the intentional radiator is reduced by 1 dB for every 3 dB that the directional gain of the antenna exceeds 6 dBi.

  16. #16
    Ultimate Member TOAD6147's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    5,479
    I know it's an old thread - you can blame it on RobRich but I was curious what came of/from this?
    "Education: That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the
    foolish their lack of understanding."
    Ambrose Bierce

Quick Reply Quick Reply

If you are already a member, please login above.

What is 10 and 5 added together?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Copyright 2014 All Enthusiast, Inc