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Whir,
You are born with free will and rational thought waiting to develop. Religion seeks to take this from you to put you into a tent designed of the religious orthodoxy and dogma.

Atheism has no such thing. It merely means lack of a belief in any god. The billboards are to get people to come out of the closet telling them they are not alone. Atheists are an oppressed minority that is finally sticking up for rights and are wanting to be recognised.

Atheism fits well with a secular Constitution and the Constitution is the only guiding dogma we need in our 2 countries. Atheists don’t like how religious organisations have taken over the government and many other areas of society claiming rights and privileges that aren’t theirs to take. There is power in numbers and all though atheists are small in number we have the weight of law behind us. We are the one’s holding the measuring stick at this point in time keeping things on the straight and narrow and making sure that equal rights and the establishment clause is upheld. You can’t leave such important laws up to the Christian to uphold as they are afraid of their own people and afraid of being ostracised by the group and kicked out of the tent.

So no orthodoxy, no dogma. Just want people to think past the end of their own religious noses.

Originally Posted by Epidemic

Of course one could claim that. Ultimately you are right. but how many murders happen at the hands of atheist groups. Has atheism been twisted into a murder campaign, war, or ...

I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised. To be clear, this isn't what my original post was about though.

Once again, for clarity's sake: a group of atheists preaching its beliefs is in no way different from a group of religious people preaching its beliefs. When said atheists claim to be different from said religious, they are in fact hypocrites.

So for example, taking out a billboard encouraging free thought may seem like a better, more rational and logical thing than the one encouraging worship, but it is, in fact, the same thing.

If atheism is about rational thinking and being responsible for ones own beliefs and morals, a group of people claiming to be atheists that tries to encourage others to give up their beliefs is, in my opinion, paradoxical.

One day. I'll be at an airport. And then there will be atheists handing out fliers. The fliers will pretty much say "Don't even believe in this."

Does it need to?

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w=1115&bih=812

Surely in that list somewhere is a group that doesn't just welcome "rational thinkers". Religions have extremist groups that no one likes, how can atheism not?

I'm not really sure why you feel compelled to pick this apart when it's a simple question. If you are trying to make a point, please do so. I'd rather discuss said point than my lack of ability to clearly explain my quandary.

Originally Posted by Whir

Gomer, this.


pickel, religion has never ruined anything for anyone. Religion doesn't have thoughts, will, or a voice. People use it, twist it around to mean what it needs to mean to them to justify their misdeeds. It's true that ideas and beliefs hold power, but only when manipulated by human will. It's simply becomes a set of tools that someone can use to rationalize their actions to themselves and others.

Of course one could claim that. Ultimately you are right. but how many murders happen at the hands of atheist groups. Has atheism been twisted into a murder campaign, war, or ...

Originally Posted by Whir

Gomer, this.


pickel, religion has never ruined anything for anyone. Religion doesn't have thoughts, will, or a voice. People use it, twist it around to mean what it needs to mean to them to justify their misdeeds. It's true that ideas and beliefs hold power, but only when manipulated by human will. It's simply becomes a set of tools that someone can use to rationalize their actions to themselves and others.

So you are talking concepts, i.e. hypotheticals, here. These groups don't really exist that you know of?

Originally Posted by Whir

I see what I did wrong now. I wanted to talk about the concept of atheistic groups preaching their beliefs, but I didn't really say that, did I?

Gomer, this.


pickel, religion has never ruined anything for anyone. Religion doesn't have thoughts, will, or a voice. People use it, twist it around to mean what it needs to mean to them to justify their misdeeds. It's true that ideas and beliefs hold power, but only when manipulated by human will. It's simply becomes a set of tools that someone can use to rationalize their actions to themselves and others.

Originally Posted by Beemer

When atheist groups get together they generally talk about the damage religion is doing to politics, education and civil rights.

Religion, other than the "private" feelings one has for a God or the belief of No God, throughout history, has ruined as many cultures as we've had societies. Just look at the destruction of life and property destroyed in the name of GOD. And ,now, look at the polarization being caused today by the injection of religion in our politics and legislative enactments.
Sad times when we should have the love and compassion that God teaches turned into a tool for division of our country, especially where our ladies are concerned. The way women are beginning to be used as a pawns, lends to the fading of their rights and more of the way our enemies treat their female counterparts. Can no see the this degradation is leading the way to a rapid moral demise before our very eyes????

I'm glad I've had the opportunity to live the Real United States of America. What we have , today, is very foreign to the country of my birth.

I still wanna know more about the groups Whir is talking about.

I've never had an atheist knock on my door *shrug*

"To me, a group of atheists telling people that religion isn't real is the exact same thing as a group of Christians telling Muslims that Islamic beliefs aren't real. Total hypocrisy from every angle. Or at least the pot calling the kettle black."

No atheist would say religion isn't real. An atheist would make the statement that a religion is based on a false premise of their being a god.

When atheist groups get together they generally talk about the damage religion is doing to politics, education and civil rights. There are issues that are explored rationally and with reason. Atheist groups don’t get together to discuss whether there is a god or not. That has already been decided by the individual that has the lack of belief in any god, that has shown up for the group meeting. There is no dogmatic world view that all atheists have to adhere to such as religions have. Secular reasoning on issues that generally finds their group at odd’s with religious groups that must adhere to a world view in order to be a member of that group. Freethinkers is what atheists, agnostics and humanists like to think of themselves and it fits pretty well when compared to the brainwashing of religion.

Originally Posted by Whir

I have been staring at the title of that girl gets scholarship thread for a while now.

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that there are atheist groups? How is that any different from being a member of a religious group? And apparently an activist group at that?

To me, a group of atheists telling people that religion isn't real is the exact same thing as a group of Christians telling Muslims that Islamic beliefs aren't real. Total hypocrisy from every angle. Or at least the pot calling the kettle black.

Am I wrong in thinking this?

Are you referring to an Atheist group in another country ???? I thought the Constitution guaranteed Freedom of Speech and Religion ( or NOT) ????


Talk about ridiculous..

Santorum’s ‘Satan’ Comments & More of His Outlandish Statements - The Daily Beast

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that there are atheist groups? How is that any different from being a member of a religious group? And apparently an activist group at that?

Whir, I grabbed on to the idea of them being coherent groups preaching, Sorry.

I think you mean groups preaching their world view. NOT DISCUSSING to try to come to a mutual understanding with the people they are preaching to. Am I close?

Whir
Are you referring to the atheist bus and billboard campaigns targeting closet atheists and people in doubt of a belief in a god?

Originally Posted by Whir

I am not lumping them all together. I am talking about loud groups. lkfjdslkfjdlskjlf You guys and your reading comprehension.

Talk about your religions! We have asked you for proof of these groups you speak of. So far you have required us to rely on faith that they exist.

I am all for having this discussion. But if this is such a significant problem that it warranted your rant, surely you must have some examples for us.

How significant is this perceived problem?

Originally Posted by Whir

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that there are atheist groups?

I see what I did wrong now. I wanted to talk about the concept of atheistic groups preaching their beliefs, but I didn't really say that, did I?

Sometimes I take a long time to make my pointless.

Originally Posted by no1_vern

I suspect, but have no proof that Whir is talking about the group that hangs out in the reddit hate group athiest subforum.

No clue what that is. I won't go near reddit. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another 4ch, ie a bunch of morons getting together to make fun of people. There's also good stuff on 4ch, just not enough to make it worth lurking. I assume reddit is the same, but maybe I'm wrong?

Originally Posted by Epidemic

Whether it be Honda fans or those folks who are wrongly Chevy fans.

Corrected that for ya' Epi!


Harder

There doesn't even need to be a group!

Gods, now you've got me all confused.

A group of atheists shouting out against religion is the same a group of Christians shouting out for Jesus. A group. It could be any group, anywhere.

I understand where you're coming from, Beemer. In that context, what I'm asking doesn't work from the start. At least I thought I was asking something. Did I start blaming people for something at some point?

I suspect, but have no proof that Whir is talking about the group that hangs out in the reddit hate group athiest subforum.

it is not all that strange that you have loud groups in both camps.

I find myself trying to tell people what I believe and why I believe it. It is hard not to do it with vigor when someone puts up a belief as fact that goes against your belief.

it is simply the politics of beliefs. I see no reason why athiests would shy away from arguments and trying to convert people to a common belief in what they believe to be fact.


I think it is human nature to want someone to believe what you do .

Whether it be Honda fans or those folks who are wrongly Ford fans.