Case choices,,,

[StarkTech]

So it's tax season & I have successfully submitted my information & to my surprise I am getting more back than I expected to,, So with a few extra $$'s at my disposal I think it's time to jump into another computer,, I'm fed up with the cheap parts in major manufactured computers (hp/compaq/dell) they all cut corners to ave a few bucks on part and charge out the wazoo for the completed project only to have it break down a few months later,,

sorry, that's my rant portion.. I figure I can build something & get a computer that is precisely want I want, nothing more nothing less,, I figure I need a starting point & what's better than a case to put all the shit into?

I'm looking for a mid-tower deign that will house a full ATX board (not necessarily the way I'm going, but it'd be nice to have the option available) Here's 5 that caught my eye from newegg. I"m kind of partial to the Thermaltake, but I'm on here for your guys' opinions/experience.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007583%2060000 6302%20600029808&IsNodeId=1&page=2&bop=And&Compare ItemList=7|11-156-226^11-156-226-TS%2C11-156-244^11-156-244-TS%2C11-144-260^11-144-260-TS%2C11-129-097^11-129-097-TS%2C11-133-182^11-133-182-TS

What do you think of the towers I've assembled &/or do you have any others that you would recommend over these?


Thanks, and I look forward to the discussion that will follow

[JPMiller]

Your asking opinions,,, so here's mine...
those are all pretty mediocre cases, the Antec is OK but not for the price...
You generally don't start with the case simply because some parts choices may drastically change what you need in a case.
You decide to get a super long videocard, or extra large tower HSF, and your suddenly rethinking the case.
Or you may decide to go high end and your suddenly over budget, the one thing you can skimp on without sacrificing performance is the case...
Start with a budget, and with the computers main use.
Are you a gamer?
What is your realistic budget?
what are the main things you'll actually do with it?
Do looks count? or is it being shoved under a desk and forgotten about?
If your budget is near a thousand, your looking at Sandybridge platform.
Do you need all new peripherals? monitor, keyboard, mouse?
Do you already have windows 7 64bit?
Theres alot of basics that should be covered WAYYY before the case...

That being said here are my favorites, from cheap to high end...
Newegg.com - ENERMAX Staray ECA3170-BL Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with 1 Apollish Blue LED Fan and Mesh Front
Newegg.com - HEC Blitz Black Steel Edition ATX Mid Tower Computer Chassis Gaming Case w/ Front Blue LED 120mm Fan & Top 120mm Fan
Newegg.com - RAIDMAX Cyclone ATX-316B Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Newegg.com - Sentey Black Box Series BX1-4284 v2.1 Black SECC 0.7mm / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Newegg.com - RAIDMAX Altas ATX-295WB Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1 Black Steel / Plastic Computer Case
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 Black SECC/ ABS Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Newegg.com - Xigmatek Utgard Mesh CPC-T90DB-U03 Black Steel / Aluminum and Mesh Bezel Computer Case
Newegg.com - Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Newegg.com - ENERMAX VOLCANUS ECA3180-BR Black / Red SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Newegg.com - XION Predator Gaming Series AXP 970-001BK Mid Tower PC Case w/ Hot-Swap Enabled Front Loading Trays for SATA HDD
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

[StarkTech]

Do you already have windows 7 64bit?
no, but i have $$ set aside for this & am waiting until I have an actual PC to install it on before I buy.

Are you a gamer?
Yes & No, I play but I'm not as deep into it as I used to be, work has found a way to keep me from being as avid of a gamer as I used to be. I do intend to play games such as AoE3 / Shogun2 / RoN titles of that nature. Based on what I've read about Shogun2 it'll need a little oomph to keep from crashing out during gameplay.

what are the main things you'll actually do with it?
Mainly gaming, but I'll be throwing NetBeans, or some other programming app on there so I can do some recreational programming & maybe a graphics/video editior as well for when I feel like being creative.

Do you need all new peripherals? monitor, keyboard, mouse?
no, no, & no. I have a wireless keyboard/mouse already & I plan on using my hdtv as my monitor.

Do looks count? or is it being shoved under a desk and forgotten about?
I don't treat my pcs that way, it'll be in an open space in the vicinity of the t.v. so looks count for something. doesn't need to be the wildest thing out there, but something with a little cahracter would be preferable.

What is your realistic budget?
I'm looking in the neighborhood of $700, exluding case & OS from the cost. I don't necessarily need to spend all of the budget if I don't have to though, that's just a ball park of what I have available.

[JPMiller]

great responses...
$700 is good...
Heres my short list to be tweaked...

Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K
Newegg.com - BIOSTAR TH67+ LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Newegg.com - SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA CD/DVD Burner - CD / DVD Burners
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Newegg.com - XIGMATEK ACXTNRP-PC502 500W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
Newegg.com - MSI N460GTX Twin Frozr II SOC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL ...$25 off w/ promo code EMCKGJE69, ends 3/21

$693.23 shipped plus $40 back in MIR's

This memory I would jump on right away, prices aren't going to go down and thats an incredible price for 8 gigs...
I may have to jump on that myself...
Normally I wouldn't suggest 8 gigs, but for the price its better to have with future games, and video editing...

[StarkTech]

I'm liking the processor, I assume it's something new that intel has come out with recently as it's baseline stats are better than that of the i5-760..

Is the micro-atx a personal preference of yours or is there some added benefit to having the micro over the full atx?

I'm switching the 640gbWD hdd for this one:
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
a little more space for jut $5 more,, seems like a good trade off

Is a 500w psu going to be sufficient for the current list? also, is the xigmatek a personal preference or does it have a better pedigree over brands like corsair & xclio?

Can't argue with the memory size/$ ratio,, I'll jump on that now.

i appreciate you taking the time to dig up the list though,,,

[JPMiller]

Nowadays unless your building a triple SLI rig, you plug one video card in the PCI-E slot and MAYBE 1 add-on card in a rare case, and the rest of the board is bare.
As long as there are sufficient memory slots, and nothing is TOO scrunched, micro-ATX is a good alternative. Theres no performance deficits, and its usually cheaper.
I now only buy an ATX if its cheaper, or there's a good reason for it.

Sandy bridge is basically like getting a $700 - $1000 worth of performance for $200 - $300.

The Xigmatek is more than enough even if you basically double your current list.
Its not BETTER than top tier brands, but the reviews and specs are solid, and like I said, its plenty of overkill so it wont be stressed even under load.

[-FMA]

Full ATX boards usually have a lot more expansion slots you probably don't need. They also limit your case selections so unless needed, they're not necessary. You're not going to take a performance hit by not going with one.

[StarkTech]

I'll prolly hold off on the psu until after I've made all the choices on the remaining parts,, I found a psu calculator that was posted in another thread on here and that should help accurately measure what I am in need of as far as wattage & amps,,

I'm by no means an expert on video cards, & in fact saying that I know about them at all would be misleading,, I'll probably shop around the video card portion for some other suggestions or least try to get some more feedback on the one you posted in your list, just want to make sure I'm comfortable with the decision before ordering it,,,

I'm also thinking that it'd be nice to have a blu-ray player, so I might explore that option as well,, I don't know if I'll scrap the dvd/cd drive or just add the blu-ray drive as a second drive,, thoughts on that?

So with the micro-atx there is no real performance degradation, you don't have a bunch of expansion slots sitting empty, it opens up your case selection, & is cheaper? seems like a no-brainer when spelled out that way lol

[-FMA]

PSU calculators are a good idea of how much power you use but tend to be a little inaccurate.

[JPMiller]

All a PSU calculator is, is a rough estimate of what your components will pull at max usage.
You want your PSU to be a little higher than the max a PSU calculator shows for the parts you have plus an extra drive or 2 and a few more fans...
As long as your in that range and buy a good quality unit, you'll have plenty of headroom without wasting money on something you wont use.

And if hes talking about the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5, then in my experience its pretty much right on, allowing for the fact that too many people DONT purchase a truly quality unit.
They have to slightly over-estimate for the "fluffed up" numbers of the worst brands
As long as its overestimating, its the best policy.
Besides, what a component pulls is rarely if ever constant.
your load varies drastically during the course of its use....

[StarkTech]

And if hes talking about the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5,

That would be the one I was referring to,, after reading some other threads I figured it would be a good place to identify how much the current system would use + a couple additional items,,

looking at the video card portion of cpubenchmark.net it seems that the video card JP listed is near the top of the list and seems to warrant the best bang for the buck deal, have you used this card though or are you just suggesting it off my max budget?

if it seems like i'm abrasive to your suggestions, don't take it personal, i just want to make sure I'm comfortable with my decisions before moving forward

[JPMiller]

You SHOULD be questioning our choices...
I picked that for a few reasons, I've had a few MSI cards and liked them, including the MSI N560GTX-TI Twin Frozr II/OC. (installed in a customers PC)
This 460 uses the same cooling and is OCed as well.
I also looked at reviews and compared prices.

[StarkTech]

I checked out the ratings on newegg from this card & I know better to believe everything I read but I also know to pay attention to things that seem to consistently arrise..

it didn't seem like people were having problems with this card arriving DOA which is nice, but i saw where several people mentioned the card only worked for 3-7 days before bugging out or dying all together. the most common criticism of the card seems to be something called tearing (not sure what that is) & artifacting (again not sure)

on an entirely different note, I think I'm going to go with the original WD hd that you suggested JP.. newegg put out a $10 off promotion for it yesterday so i'll be purchasing that when I get off work today.

[StarkTech]

edit:
tearing & artifacting

my understanding of the above is that tearing is essentialy a poor or choppy transition from one frame to the next, leaving parts of the original frame intermixed with the next & artifcating is basically when the card makes a drawing error,, is that basically right?

[JPMiller]

Here is an insane deal on 3 copies of Win 7 64bit for the price of one...
MICROSOFT CORPORATION WIN7 HOME PREMIUM UPG FAMILY PACK -1 license for 3 PCs,3 purchases allowed per end customer only : Software | Dell
You get 2 install disks, 1 32bit, 1 64bit... you get a serial that will work for 3 separate installs, all legit and full version.
I bought this 3 months ago for $150 on sale...

As to the complaints, there's a few things to remember...
There were only a few complaints, and none of them stated the PSU specs, and none of them stated it was on a fresh install of Windows.
The PSU is often the real component behind video card "problems".
Dirty, underpowered PSU's can wreak havoc with performance and when it dies it kills other components...
Its pretty seldom another component can kill a system or other parts.
Also, more often than not, people dump a new highend card into a lowend tower, (usually with an underpowered PSU), don't remove the old drivers, and either use the older drivers from the CD or not install the drivers at all because it worked when they turned it on....
I have not heard of constant issues with this chip...
You can Google pretty much any component or chipset and find hundreds of complaints...
Spyware, old drivers, PSU, etc. can all impact performance and cause any sort of artifacts, degraded performance, failure, etc.
Now if there were a thousand feedback "reviews" and 50% were bad, I'd put more stock in it if the complaints were all the same.
But you have to remember, VERY few people go back to write a good review, (or when it just works fine), where nearly everyone who has a bad experience does.

[StarkTech]

Seems like the win7 is a real steal,, but it says that it's an upgrade pack.. does that mean I'll need to purchase a version of win7 before doing this? if so, it's prolly not worth it to buy a vers then the upgrade pack, when i could go out and but a copy of win7 pro,, if not then i'll get this version now & upgrade later if necessary

i guess the upgrade packs work pretty much as they sound,, buy an upgrade pack & it will take the current version & add in the other feature, right?

[JPMiller]

No, its a full retail install, but it looks for a previous version of windows, or a previous install of itself...
There is a quick way to install without the previous install... I'll have to find the info.
If you don't have another computers to install it on or relatives/friends that do, then a OEM is fine too...
This is just a good deal for 3

[StarkTech]

That sounds good, but I'd like to confirm that,, If you can dig up that info you are referring to that would be helpful & I'll do some research as well to see what I can find about it..

I don't mind having the other licenses for the price,, they could come in handy down the road

[StarkTech]

Okay, found this while looking around.. unfortunately it's from Nov '09
Clean install with Windows 7 upgrade media? Get the facts! | ZDNet there's a specific section at the bottom of the page,, i assume there is something newer than this that you are referencing though..

[StarkTech]

with the integrated graphics in the Sandy-Bridge cpu is a separate video card really needed? watching the video on newegg in the product description it doesn't seem like it is necessary to have the video card if you are using the H67 chipset on the motherboard.

can anyone confirm or shed some more light on this?