Wanna Buy new desktop

[wannabgamer]

Hey I need some help bit of a noob I know what most shit does and how its important but I am looking at buying a semi gaming system would like 12-16gb RAM but that as I have read is a bit pointless if everything else is not up to scratch. This is the base and the website has all the possible upgrades that you can add but if anyone has other sites or some input would be greatly appreciated as I want to get more into gaming on PC. Though at the same time I also want to be able to play my Xbox through my monitor and be able to download from pc straight on etc.
Thanks

[SoloCamo]

Welcome to TechIMO!

Before anybody can suggest anything, you need to supply us with a budget.

I could put together a machine that costs $500, or one that costs $5,000 and both will do the same thing mentioned in your post - though one will do it much better obviously.

[RicheemxX]

The base?? You missed the link!!
So you are trying to buy a pre-built or build on your own?
What is the budget here??

12-16gb yeah overkill, shops add more memory, giving higher specs to boost prices. 4gb is plenty for most games 8gb is more than enough. A good CPU and GPU are what you want.

edit: Solo beat me to it!

[ShyguyXPC]

Even with top end CPU and GPU in the rig, 8GB is still MORE than enough, the only things you'd need 12-16GB for is multi tasking, high end workstation tasks or if your heavily into AutoCAD, 3D rendering, Photoshop (high res large size images), video editing/production, etc etc.



And Semi Gaming system? Either it is or it isn't.

If you mean you'll be using it for Gaming as well as other tasks, then its still a gaming system. Most GOOD gaming rigs are leaps and bounds overkill for more mundane tasks.

[MegalosSkylaki]

What I would add is give attention to the power supply and make sure its of good brand, sufficient wattage, good stability and cooling, has the connectors you need for the other stuff.


If you get a pre-built, this is often a weak point unless its custom pre-built and you can choose your PSU.


Be aware that the posted "specs" on PSUs are not according to an industry standard and can be overstated--or with some brands even "understated" given the performance the unit is able to support.


Many people ignore the PSU but its stability in maintaing the specified voltages can affect the performance of the computer. Add the PSU to the CPU and GPU for happy results.

DOOOOG

[wannabgamer]

Well would like to get for about $1000 - $1500 around $1000 would be great. I would love to buoldmy own but at the moment im looking at pre built. yea the power and cooling system are two things im worried about getting wrong if you like i can post another few links with everything i was looking at and if its up to shiat then tell me where im wrong otherwise im open to othersites and what not. i would consider building but im sure most of use would suggest againat it as im new to it but thats kinda why i kinda want to.
ok so ram leave at 8gb ok i get that was looking at radeon for graphics was talking to a bloke today who reckons 2 1gb 6770 radeon im pretty sure it is i was looking at or should i just go a 7series juat single games i play atm is actually just wow but wanna get diablo.

sorry for long response excited and wanna get into it more especially for halo 4

[ShyguyXPC]

Actually around here we RARELY ever suggest a Prebuilt, just about every site like this one, majority of members will suggest Build your own. Regardless of how new one is the "hobby".

Just get a single GPU, no sense in Dual Lower end cards, when a single higher end for the same amount will do just as good, add in use less power, create less heat, and less headaches if Crossfire or SLI is not working properly.

Single Radeon 7850 would do the trick of 2x 6770's.

but even for WoW and Diablo 3, that would be overkill, how ever better to build a Gaming PC with a little overkill, in case you pick up any games that might need more GPU power.

Bit late for me to piece together anything, but some of the others on here can do just as well for the budget.

probably won't be on till late in afternoon/evening tomorrow again.

[wannabgamer]

Ok thanks yea thats ok ill be checking regularly anyway so thats cool. well i dont really want ovekill cause it will only be a couple games like halo wow and diablo and will help cut costs if its not needed

[wannabgamer]

Also here is the link that I missed in the first post I also have a comparison site but both sites are prebuilt but I can alter the specs.

INTEL Core i7 2600 3.4GHz DESKTOP COMPUTER PC 1TB 8GB | eBay

and another site I was looking at

Intel Core i7 3770K Quad 3.5Ghz H77 MB 8GB 1TB DVDRW Desktop Computer PC | eBay

but as I have been looking through other forums I see people using new Egg? unless the companies I have looked at are cheaper I am open to suggestions for not only specs but websites to thanks.

Again looking for around the $1000 but up to $1500. Also after suggestions on monitor size I know its more a comfortable thing I was thinking 23-26inch.

[ShyguyXPC]

I see you have Ebay Australia links, so assuming your in Aus? if so, newegg, tigerdirect and many of the others we post in this forum, doesn't ship to Aus.


though some of our Aussie members might have some store/online retailers to suggest shopping from.

[wannabgamer]

ShyguyXPC yea I am in Australia and yea i kept reading through forums and realised that newegg weren't an option for Aus people but then i did a bit of googling and found some but not as good as newegg but haven't done any thorough looking as of yet I am still trying to work out specs before I look at where to buy from though atm looks like ebay.

[wannabgamer]

yea I am in Australia and yea i kept reading through forums and realised that newegg weren't an option for Aus people but then i did a bit of googling and found some but not as good as newegg but haven't done any thorough looking as of yet I am still trying to work out specs before I look at where to buy from though atm looks like ebay.

I have still be doing a lot of research and am still along way from purchasing or building my new PC I have been trying to find out about power which obviously is determined by everything else but also about overclocking, cooling system, motherboard and SSD would I need 120gb SSD? motherboard AsRock Z77?

Also these two aren't really performance but would a built in wireless or a D-Link be better and I suppose a surge protector would be in order?

[wannabgamer]

Ok well so far I have decided on:

Intel core i7 2600 or 3770? (haven't decided whether to overclock it but i suppose even if i don't buy it overclocked could do it myself)

Radeon 7850HD $320 (Could I save money for going for an older model or is there such a difference that I should just pay the difference for the 7850. I did a comparison on a few and 7850 stands above unless you pay a lot but what about a late model 6 series or should I be able to find the 7850 for less?)

Z77 motherboard (but was wondering if should upgrade to Z77 Chipset with SLI/CrossFireX $69 for upgrade)

RAM either 4GB $35 or 8GB $59

HD itself not overly worried 500GB $95, 1TB $120

But still unsure about SSD expensive but I keep hearing its a great option for gaming as its super quick response. cheapest i found was 60GB $110 don't know if thats good or not??

700W PSU

and correct me if I need something better but was looking at Corsair Hydro Series H40 $98

adding Wireless $25 and Dual layer DVD burner $29

I priced myself just off one website for around $1300 Prebuilt

Still looking for incite on what to buy and where from post above^^.

[ShyguyXPC]

Get the 3770, no point in shooting self in foot and not having PCI Express 3.0 capability.

the Controller chip for PCI Express is on the CPU, and ONLY the Ivy Bridge 3000 series CPU's have that, or for Socket 2011 Sandy Bridge E Series chips.

i7 2600 is only PCIe 2.0 spec.




Asked a couple of our Aussie members, well one of them, and his brother I know from another forum, Mickwish, here on TIMO, asked them some good sites in Aus, to order from like Newegg, one that I have heard of every now and then I used for this list.


ASRock Z77 Extreme4 Motherboard [Z77-EXTREME4] - $155.00 : PC Case Gear

G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL (2x4GB) DDR3 [GS-F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL] - $55.00 : PC Case Gear

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $92.00 : PC Case Gear

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM [GH24NS90] - $22.00 : PC Case Gear

CoolerMaster Elite 430 Black with window [RC-430-KWN1] - $49.00 : PC Case Gear

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM [GFC-02050-MS] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler [RR-212E-20PK-R1] - $36.00 : PC Case Gear

MSI Radeon HD7850 Twin Frozr 2GB OC [R7850TWINF2GD5OC] - $255.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel Core i5 3570K [BX80637I53570K] - $239.00 : PC Case Gear

Antec VP650P 650W Power Supply [VP-650P] - $85.00 : PC Case Gear

Arctic Silver Ceramique2 (2.7g) [AS-CMQ2-27] - $6.00 : PC Case Gear

Before shipping

Sub-Total: $1093.00

Full complete system, not including a Wireless card, Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers.




As to the Corsair H40, its cheaper here: Corsair Hydro Series H40 CPU Cooler [CWCH40] - $68.00 : PC Case Gear


I have the H60 which is the first of the 40, 60, 80 and 100 models that came out, the 80 came out 2nd, and then it was the 40 and 100 models next.

prior to them was the H50 and H70 series.

anyways, the H40 is fine for mild OC's or stock settings, but for any decent OCing I'd recommend the H60 at least, preferably the H80 at the least since it includes to fans for the radiator, otherwise with the 60, you have to source out a 2nd fan similar to the stock corsair one, and 4 additional screws to install it.

In my Case, I got the H60, and then since the recommended Scythe Gentle Typhoon Series fans were out of stock a year ago, since their plant was hit by the quake in japan a year or two ago, I had to resort to buying 2 Noctua 120mm fans, which cost quite a bit more.


Had I waited for the H80 to come out, I could of gotten that and just used to the 2 stock Corsair Fans, and saved some money.


H60: Corsair Hydro Series H60 CPU Cooler [CWCH60] - $92.00 : PC Case Gear

H80: Corsair Hydro Series H80 CPU Cooler [CWCH80] - $132.00 : PC Case Gear

H80 has a thicker Radiator than the 60, allowing more cooling surface.

not sure why the pricing is so much more in Aus than US (Price difference between the 40, 60 and 80 models).

But that Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO I linked above is a good traditional cooling setup, great for OCing as well.

If your ambient room temps and stuff are very high, the Liquid Cooling kits might be a better way to go.


Antec also makes some kits as well, which compete with Corsairs.

Water Cooling Systems


You could even give Intels Cooler kit a try, its a decent kit from what I have read about.


As far as an SSD Goes, I'd stick with Intel's SSD's their the most reliable and tested SSD's out there, their newer Intel 330 Series are pretty decent from what I have seen.

I'd consider a 60GB at the very least, since Windows can take up nearly most of that with its own installation.

Intel 330 Series 60GB SSD [SSDSC2CT060A3K5] - $85.00 : PC Case Gear

Otherwise the 120GB is the recommended one: Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $125.00 : PC Case Gear


On my Rig I have a 74GB Western Digital Velociraptor drive, Refurbished, and I have Windows 7 64-bit installed on it, I don't have much else installed on it, other than Antivirus and a few tools/utilities, and my Web Browser Downloads Folder is on it, little over a GB of files in it.

But my main Drive has 53GB taking up its space, so you can see why a 60GB is barely enough.

But I have a 750GB WD Black Series I have my games and software installed to, and a 1.5TB WD Green Series for backing up data to.

With an SSD, you'd want to install the OS and a few apps/tools to it, and everything else installed to the 1TB or whatever HDD.

You'd also have to move Windows Swap file or whatever you want to call it, to the HDD as well, as that can excessively wear and tear the SSD.

You'd want to read up on do's and dont's on SSD's, and using them.





but the list I made above with that site, its SLI and Crossfire capable if you should ever need that, has PCIe 3.0 support with an Ivy Bridge CPU, and decent OC options.

8GB of RAM, 1600Mhz rated and 1.5V (1.5V is stock spec voltage for DDR3, so if you were to run the RAM at 1600, you don't need to bump the RAM voltage when OCing, increase voltage equals more heat).

Case is a mid tower, bit smaller than mine, but not by much, still enough room to put everything in, and has decent cooling.

Radeon HD 7850, MSI model with their popular Twin Frozr II cooler design.

Intel Core i5 3570K, chose the i5, because realistically there's very little performance difference between the i5 and i7 in this clock speed range, if your trying to save some money, this is where to save it. The K Models are also better for OCing, since all K models have unlocked Clock Multipliers which allow for easier OCing should you want to do that.

otherwise non K models are able to OC, but your rewards will usually be less, and more limited in how far you can OC.

The Antec Power Supply, is more power than you need, but more than enough to run a pair of Mid range, or even current gen top end cards, in Crossfire or SLI (Couple GTX 670's will run on this thing quite easily), but a couple 7850's will easily run on that as well.

and then the Arctic Cooling Thermal paste is just extra in case you need to reapply whatever Cooling solution you get, this version of AC Thermal Paste is electrically non conductive, so if you spill some or apply in wrong area, you don't have to worry about the chance of it shorting out circuits or contacts on the hardware.

the Stuff can even be used on the Video card heatsinks, many users take their heatsinks off, clean off old stuff and put this on it for better cooling.

(wouldn't recommend that for new users, unless you absolutely need to)

[wannabgamer]

Thanks

So you recommend the H80: Corsair Hydro Series H80 CPU Cooler [CWCH80] - $132.00 : PC Case Gear

instead of
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler [RR-212E-20PK-R1] - $36.00 : PC Case Gear
Because I don't know a lot about OCing would you recommend not doing it and cutting price and just going for the H60?

I read somewhere else might of been you telling someone that to save money drop from i7 to i5 so i might do that. I'll read more into the SSD's but I was leaning towards the 120GB was only gunna reduce to 60GB if cost became to much but now changing to i5 I'll go 120GB.

Also what do you mean here "8GB of RAM, 1600Mhz rated and 1.5V (1.5V is stock spec voltage for DDR3, so if you were to run the RAM at 1600, you don't need to bump the RAM voltage when OCing, increase voltage equals more heat)."
is this in terms of the power supply or just something to watching if I'm OCing?

I know this is repeating myself though do you think I should or really be OCing for WOW and Diablo with the system you just did up? And do you think this is overkill for WOW when the only other games I'll play is Halo and maybe counter strike those type of games?

Yea I'll probably get a wireless card just encase as I am a student in shared living. I don't need a mouse got a G500, I might look at a better keyboard though just got stock atm and I have speakers. Is there anything you think I could reduce for cost?

Have I missed anything that you went through?

[ShyguyXPC]

no, if your fine with an active cooling setup (Hyper 212), then that is fine for OCing and regular use, but sometimes the liquid cooling kits can do a bit better job depending on the environment.

typically, they don't cool much better than stock cooling, but equipped with the right fans, or dual fans in a push/pull config, their cooling can improve, and provide better OCing cooling.

Depends on what you want really. Most liquid cooling kits take up less space than the large heatpipe coolers, but it really depends.

here's my rig with my H60 in it.



as you can see there's an enormous amount of room in the case with the kit installed, rather than having a large heatpipe cooler in the middle taking up a large amount of internal case room.

Its up to you though, cheaper and good cooling with the 212 EVO, or spend more with the H80, or H60, or the Intel Kit, or one of Antec's kits and get similar cooling results, possibly better with better fans installed for OCing.



As to the RAM, no, the RAM listed is rated at 1600MHz, its guaranteed to run at 1600Mhz, 1600MHz is an Overclock Rating for RAM, anything beyond 1333MHz is Overclock rated.

When Overclocking, sometimes its necessary to boost your RAM's speed above its standard speeds, in this case, depending on the CPU and platform with current Intel systems starting with socket 1366 i7's on up, its 1066 or 1333MHz.

When Overclocking RAM, sometimes its necessary to bump up the Voltage. DDR3 by its default Specifications, runs at 1.5 Volts. Some OCing RAM on the market requires 1.65V or some other voltage setting. Some Motherboards won't go that high, others will.

So rather than Fecking around with RAM voltages, if your RAM can run at 1.5V at whatever Overclock speed above stock, then its one less thing to really worry about. Plus, the higher the Voltage, the hotter the RAM runs. So by not having to bump it up, and able to run at 1600, its less heat increase with the RAM.



There's really no need to OC with those games right now, the reason for adding the OCing features and capability is just in case you need to or want to down the road.

Same with SLI/Crossfire features. You may not need them now, but rather than messing with upgrading to it down the road, and since you can afford it, might as well get that now.

Basically its future proofing your system, its a Gaming system, and its usually recommended to build them with some extra features that may come in handy down the road, just in case.

A system like this should easily last a good 2 to 3 years before needing any major upgrades, aside from Video card, and Hard drives.

as it is, my current system, pictured above, most of it is 3 year old tech, and its still able to run with many of the newer systems. The GPU is newer, about a year and half old, the CPU is 3 years old, the Motherboard, is a good 2 years at least. The Hard drives, are a couple years old. Case, is a year or so old, only my RAM, and Liquid cooling kit, and maybe case fans are newer in this thing.

well, that and the PSU, but even that is nearly a year old.


When I say how old, some of the parts are actually that old, some are newer but that product first came out at that time.

my prior system was a slightly lesser performing Core i7 as well, and that was almost entirely 3+ year old tech.

I can't remember how much I paid for all of it, but I paid a fraction of what it would of cost to build new, with the newest system even though it took me nearly a year to scrounge up parts here and there for it.

3 years ago, my i7 system with my Monitor, cost me between 1000 and 1300 total.

the current slightly better system, probably cost me about $500-600 with out the monitor, and reusing my copy of Windows.


But that's including a new Keyboard, Mouse, Router, and some other stuff.

the old system, I was using my old keyboard, and Logitech G5 with it.


Good choice on mouse, the G500, those are really nice, replacement for the G5's.

I ended up with a Gigabyte M8000X mouse this time around, not too bad, not as well built feeling as the Logitechs, or MS mice, but was good enough for the price at the time.



For Keyboard, if you can find it, give the Microsoft Sidewinder X4 a look over, NICE keyboard, with LED backlit Keys, every key is illuminated, red LED, 3 levels of illumination and OFF setting, has Anti Ghosting, which is nice for using more than 3 keys at once and not having some Windows error or problems with games not being able to use 3 or more key combo's.


I like it so much, I bought a 2nd one, to use on my Mom's Netbook in the other room (Since I bought her a small Logitech Wireless mouse, and used 20" Dell LCD Display to plug it into while at home), she loves the backlit keys in low light conditions, she didn't think she would like it, since it was a gaming keyboard, but I asked her last week, and she said she absolutely loves that feature LOL.

about all she uses her netbook for is general uses, Facebook, email, and some office software.



Aside from any of that, only other things I can think of is, make sure you have some basic tools handy like crosshead screw driver, one with a long neck, and at least a needle nose pliers (comes in handy picking up screws dropped into the case).

you could probably pick up a basic tool kit online as well.

one of these: Premium Anti-Static Wrist Strap [ST-A601] - $6.00 : PC Case Gear



These kits are overkill, more than half that stuff you won't use: 29 Piece Tool Kit with Torch [TD2066] - $30.00 : PC Case Gear

43 Piece Computer Tool Kit [STK-8910] - $35.00 : PC Case Gear

but gives an idea of what the tool kits look like.

Usually a Crosshead/Phillips head screwdriver and needle nose pliers is all you need.

I usually use a few different Screwdrivers, needle nose and bent needle nose, as well as my Battery Powered Black & Decker Screw Driver (comes in handy quite often, with its locking mode, I can manually use it for extra torque since I can firmly grip it in my hand, unlike small thin regular drivers).


Couldn't hurt to get a new USB Thumb Drive, 8GB or larger.

Comes in handy every so often, for example, if your having problems with Wired or Wireless network access, you can download drivers and other software onto the USB Drive, and then plug it into the new PC download, and install them. Have had to resort to that more than a few times myself.


my old case, I had a Flash Card reader installed as well, but I rarely use any flash cards anymore aside from MicroSD cards, which I have a small USB adapter for them, so no big deal.


I still need to get myself an External USB flash card reader though, my Sony PSP still has to have access with its cards, and currently have no way of loading data on to those.

[wannabgamer]

Yea I love the G500 great smooth quick and I especially love that I can adjust the weight I've got it set medium weight cause I am a bit heavy handed lol. Yea I think I might try to save with the cooling not to be stingy but don't feel that I will need it for the type of gaming and if I change down the track I can just update by then will be new models.

I also edited my last post.

I agree with what you said that if I pay more now I will be able to use it for longer without having to buy a new PC. Yea I have tools for putting it all together

So i like what you've put together still deciding on cooling system don't think I'll go the H80 but thinking bout H60 or even just the 212 EVO. I don't really want to but if there was anything you would downgrade or change what would you suggest? I'd say my price will be around the $1200.

[ShyguyXPC]

honestly I don't buy into the weight BS with mice, I just load all the weights in, realistically the total weights they give you don't amount to much, its not like their large lead slugs (like we used to have for Pinewood derbie cars in cub scouts). Some might say I'm not sensitive enough to feel the difference, but I work in a Produce Department in a grocery store, so I'm a bit used to sensing how much a pound, or half pound or whatever is. change in my pocket sometimes has more weight than the weights they have for these mice.

but the one thing I don't like about the G500 is its mouse wheel moves too smoothly for my tastes, I like a little tactile feedback and slight clicking when using it, maybe not so much in sound, but in feel, so I know when I'm scrolling the mouse wheel, I have a few games where the mouse wheel is used, and that is important to know when its being moved really, sometimes its easy to move the wheel and not know it.

For the list I made, about only thing I would change is adding an SSD, one of the 120GB Intel 330 Series.

Maybe a 2nd HDD, something in the 1.5TB Range, and a WD Green Series, or Seagate 5400RPM model maybe, something power saving, but enough to back up data on, or even a USB 3.0 External Drive to back up on.

Also so you know when looking at drives, HGST is Western Digital now, it used to be Hitachi HDD's, but they were bought out by WD. Samsung HDD's (Not SSD's) is also owned by Seagate, so you know your getting either WD or Seagate for the most part. There are still Toshiba and other brands out there, but the big 4 are now the big 2.


As for other changes, for me, it'd be the case, that case is good, but I've grown tired of the side window, bright LED showcase look, at least for my main rig.

as it is, I just got some Sound insulating material with my new case fan, so my current case will eventually have that installed as well, help with noise dampening.

not that it really needs it, but what ever.

I'm Partial to Corsairs RAM now days, but I've used all the major brands stuff, though the one brand I personally stay away from is Kingston, just don't care for their stuff, from the old days when their ram was extremely picky what boards it works with, some of it is still that way.

As to the case, its fine, but I like Corsair, NZXT, Bit Fenix, Fractal Designs, Some of Coolermasters, a few Thermaltakes and Antec's, and a few others like Lian li and Silverstone.

For the Video card, my self personally I don't have too much a problem with AMD cards, but I'm more partial to Nvidia, I'd probably consider a GTX 670 before the Radeons. Though Nvidia is to release its new GTX 660/660 Ti card next month some time, so If can hold off till then, that might be worth getting, but for the games your mentioning, the 7850 Will be more than enough for.

The Games I play, demand a bit more in GPU power, so thats why I'm saying that.

[wannabgamer]

True well I spose if you can't feel a difference in weight change I could from non to about 25g doesn't seem like much dunno probably just in my head but I didn't buy it for the weights and as for the scroll you can adjust it so its not free and it does give the feel of the clicking the little button on top behind the scroll cause I didn't like the free scroll cause even for surfing the web was hard to control.

Well I might look into the cases I just don't want to make that a big expense will be looking at the cheaper models. As for noise I'm not really worried though I spose might change my mind down the track and if I do than I'll just buy somethingto help.

I'll have a look at the GTX660 card but I imagine it is going to be more expensive than the 7850.

Also with the hard drives you mentioned are they external or not. I have a 1.5TB WD and a 500GB WD atm but was looking at getting a 2TB.

I have added the 120GB SSD to my list as well. With the 212 EVO would you say I need 2 fans or just 1 extra? I know you have the H60 so I threw it in their but if I went for something a bit cheaper and added another fan?

NZXT Havik 140 CPU Cooler [ACNZHV001] - $69.00 : PC Case Gear

Xigmatek Dark Knight Night Hawk CPU Cooler [21XT-S1283DKNH] - $45.00 : PC Case Gear

Corsair Hydro Series H60 CPU Cooler [CWCH60] - $92.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel RTS2011LC Liquid Cooling System [BXRTS2011LC] - $85.00 : PC Case Gear

Thanks for your help I'll prob have a few more things to ask I have almost got my build

[wannabgamer]

Been looking at cases and I know I can buy cheap fans but I'm thinking these couple cause they already come with more fans already with filters and still under $100

Thermaltake V9 Case [VJ40001W2Z] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

Lian Li Lancool First Knight PC-K59 [LL-PC-K59] - $79.00 : PC Case Gear

NZXT Tempest 210 Mid Tower Case [CSNZT210] - $69.00 : PC Case Gear

I really like the thermaltake design but I also like the price of the Lian Li one lol.

I've been looking at the GTX660 and it is supposedly coming out on 16th of August but I couldn't find anything saying that this was definite. But it's suppose to be very close to the 670 only that the memory bandwidth is less and is similar to the 7850 but its texel rate is much better than the 7850 and pixel rate is a little better. I'm sure you already new that but I like saying it to refresh myself and encase I am wrong lol but I might try hold out for it see exactly what the specs are in comparison to the 7850.