Evolve my small tower

[SGT Tagget]

Hi
Trying to better desktop tower build. Wanted to build a new a gaming computer from scratch, but thought I'd try with what I've got.

Using my CopID and Everest Home Edition I'll give what I can to show you what I've got.

CASE:7"W x 14.1"H x 17.3"L

MOTHERBOARD: CPU Properties; original clock 2133MHz (16 x 133), system memory 2048MB, BIOS type AMI, L1 Data cache 32 KB, L1 Code Cache 32KB, L2 Cache 2MB (on-die, ATC, Full Speed), CPUID; Intel, Core 2 CPU 6400@ 2.13GHz, Front side bus; type Intel GTL+, Bus width 64-bit, real clock 133MHz, Effective clock 133MHz, Bandwidth 1066MB/s, Total Physical memory 2048MB.

GRAPHICS: NVIDIA GeForce GT 220

[ShyguyXPC]

Your better off building from Scratch, all of that is too far behind in specs to be worth anything for a good gaming PC these days,

About best you would be able to do is a 1st Gen Quad core, bump up the RAM (DDR2 is much more expensive these days than DDR3, and even that is on its way out in a year or two with DDR4 out sometime next year, which most likely we'll see regular desktops with it in end of 2013 or 2014 sometime.). And then a lower mid range GPU.


But for the money, you could build a new system from scratch that would run circles around the older system with upgrades.


Whats your Budget for the whole thing?

[SGT Tagget]

Hi ShyguyXPC,
At this stage the price is not a factor. I was hoping to utilize my case, due to the fact it fits in the computer alcove and not to spend unnecessary money. I'm willing to completely gutter the computer case and put in the latest what-ever.

Quoting your comment from; My First Desktop

"Ditch the barebone or bundled kits like those, their graphics options are never any good, and you can get better stuff for your dollar and build yourself rather than get everything in one bundle like those.


none of those systems are good for gaming given their price range.

The best one of the bunch is the i3 with the Radeon 6670, but this is a $65-80 card, and not worth it for a $900+ system.


Its CPU is lesser, but the video card is better.

But NO gaming system for $900-1000 should be running a Sub $100 GPU.

Hell, this one

Buy the CyberPower Core i5 2TB HDD Gaming PC at TigerDirect.ca

has a $50 or less Video card in it, IT IS NOT even a gaming rig by that standard.

This one for $860+ Doesn't even have a gaming card, it uses the Intel Graphics on the CPU:

Buy the CybertronPC Core i5 500GB HDD Gaming PC at TigerDirect.ca




your better off custom Building and getting more for your money.

As to which to go for, I agree Intel is the best choice right now, AMD really offers nothing worth your money at the moment.

as to which is important between RAM, CPU and GPU.

RAM is last of the 3, as long as you are running 4GB RAM, your fine, anything more is really wasted for Gaming, but may come in handy for Multitasking and such.



GPU is always more important for gaming. CPU is just as important, but for every day tasks and basic usage, even a low end $50 Celeron based on the same Intel CPU's that are out now is sufficient for those tasks.

Some games are more CPU dependent, in which case CPU power is more important, most games are GPU dependent, so GPU is more important.

Trick is to pair up a good CPU with the GPU.

if the CPU is too low end, it can bottleneck or choke the GPU's optimal performance, in which case, depending on how much bottleneck there is, you could be paying $50-100+ more for a card than you are getting due to the CPU.

basically if your running most Intel Core i5 or i7 Quad cores, you can toss in the most powerful Single cards out there and not have a bottleneck.

if for example you did that with say the $50 celeron, you'd be heavily choking the cards.


For a $1000 Budget range, it should be feasible to get a Core i5 Quad core, 8GB RAM, a good $200-300 Range GPU, and a Motherboard with plenty of upgrade and expansion options, including SLI or CrossfireX capability to use multiple Video cards in the system.


Using NCIX (canada's version of Newegg, which is native to Canada, where as Newegg and Tigerdirect are both Native to US).

HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA3 6GB/S 7200RPM 64MB Cache 3.5IN Dual Proc Hard Drive OEM - Western Digital WD - WD1002FAEX

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Edition 64BIT SP1 DVD OEM - Microsoft - GFC-02050

CPU: Intel Core i5 3550 Quad Core Processor LGA1155 3.3GHZ Ivy Bridge 6MB Retail - Intel - BX80637I53550

Not top of the line, but should be very capable.


Mobo: Biostar TZ77A Z77 S1155 4DDR3 2600(OC) HDMI+DVI+VGA 2PCI 2PCIE 2PCIEX16 2USB3.0 Motherboard ATX - BIOSTAR - TZ77A

Doesn't support SLI, but does support AMD CrossfireX, however due to the 2nd PCIe x16 slot only having an x4 bandwidth slot, its not really intended for the level of video card selected for this build, but you can still use it for a 2nd card and gain some performance increase from it still.



RAM: G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL Ripjaws PC3-12800 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 Core i5 1.5V Memory Kit - G.Skill - F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL

Its only 4GB, but had to make some cuts somewhere so as to not go too far over the $1000 budget, still 4GB is good to start with, and its rated at up to 1600MHz, so you have some Overclocking headroom with the RAM if you wanted to try that down the road.


DVD Drive: ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black - ASUS - DRW-24B1ST Bulk

was on special.


Video card: MSI Radeon HD 7850 Twin Frozr III 860MHZ 2GB 4.8GHZ GDDR5 DVI HDMI 2x MINI-DP PCI-E Video Card - MSI/MicroStar - R7850 Twin Frozr 2GD5

Had to make some cuts somewhere, but this is still a very capable mid range card.


Power Supply: Corsair Builder Series CMPSU-500CXV2 500W ATX Power Supply Active PFC 120MM Fan *3 Year Wrty* - Corsair - CMPSU-500CXV2

Top quality brand, 500W is more than enough to run this system as listed.



Case: Corsair Carbide Series 300R Black Gaming Case ATX 3X5.25 4X3.5 Front USB Audio No PSU - Corsair - CC-9011014-WW

bit large, but was on special, and free shipping which is a life saver, since shipping for cases can be quite expensive.

Includes a Free Corsair 120mm Case fan (these normally sell for about $20-30 in the US here)

Also has a deal with a Noctua CPU Cooler, for $40, which normally is quite a bit more.

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 LGA1155/1156/1366/AM3 I7/I5/PHENOM Heatpipe Cooler W/ NF-P14 140MM & NF-P12 120MM Fan - Noctua - NH-D14

Noctua cooler I mentioned, keep in mind this cooler is EXTREMELY Large, and will take up a large portion of the interior of the case, it may even block access to installing the RAM so if you got it, just remember to install the RAM in the motherboard before mounting the Cooler to the CPU/Board.

Total before shipping: $1,006.44

has everything but a Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers/Headset and Monitor.

Would have to make some major cuts in the build to add those additional parts.

Would definitely need to drop down to An Intel Dual core (or a lower end AMD Quad core), budget range Motherboard (with no CPU overclocking, no Multi GPU capability, and limited expansion slots, RAM slots, etc), smaller case, as well as to fit a monitor and other parts in."

I thought that was perfect, being the right size, with two USB 3's on the front(hoping to get at least four on the back), but the size let me down(I THINK?). The height on some web sites say it's 17.7" high and others say it's 19.1". If it's 19.1" it's too high! Otherwise it fits perfectly.

Even if the dimensions allow, I'm not sure if it is allowed(due to air flow and cooling) to be in an alcove with the door closed on the front and the back opened, on an inside dimensions of; 11"wide x 24"long x 17.8"High?

Thanks ShyguyXPC

[ShyguyXPC]

ASRock Z77E-ITX Mini ITX Motherboard [Z77E-ITX] - $169.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel Core i5 3570K [BX80637I53570K] - $235.00 : PC Case Gear

Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 [CML8GX3M2A1600C9] - $59.00 : PC Case Gear

BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX Case White [PRODIGY-WH] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB [02G-P4-2670-KR] - $479.00 : PC Case Gear

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM [GFC-02050-MS] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM [GH24NS90] - $22.00 : PC Case Gear

Antec High Current Gamer 620W Modular HCG-620M [HCG-620M] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $89.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Sub-Total: $1481.00


Then either use stock cooling or an aftermarket kit that will work in that case and motherboard, or toss in a Corsair or Antec Liquid Cooling kit and a couple Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1400RPM or higher 120mm fans on the kit.

If price is not a factor, then why bother reusing the old case that might be more restrictive and limited in options, functions and performance?


That Bit Fenix Mini ITX Case above is small enough to fit in those dimensions you listed, plus it has enough room to stuff in the largest Video cards on the market right now.


I would of opted for a Geforce GTX 660 Ti instead, for a bit less in cost, but their not out yet, supposedly sometime this month is the release on them.

[ShyguyXPC]

PSU in that list is Modular, which you'll want in a Mini ITX System, 620W is more than enough for that list, even the 520W model would be enough, but I chose the 620W, since that motherboard has some Overclock Functions for CPU, and the CPU chosen is meant for Overclocking if desired, as well as the RAM.

The video card will dwarf the motherboard, but thats expected with Mini ITX. But you also have USB 3.0 ports on the Mobo and header for front case ports as well.

Board also comes with a WiFi add in board for the Mobo to use besides standard wired networking.


Intel 330 Series SSD for the OS and frequent use apps, 1TB at least 7200RPM 64MB Cache drive for Games and software (Can replace it with a 2TB if you want for not much more overall system price).

[SGT Tagget]

ASRock Z77E-ITX Mini ITX Motherboard [Z77E-ITX] - $169.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel Core i5 3570K [BX80637I53570K] - $235.00 : PC Case Gear

Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 [CML8GX3M2A1600C9] - $59.00 : PC Case Gear

BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX Case White [PRODIGY-WH] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB [02G-P4-2670-KR] - $479.00 : PC Case Gear

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM [GFC-02050-MS] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM [GH24NS90] - $22.00 : PC Case Gear

Antec High Current Gamer 620W Modular HCG-620M [HCG-620M] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $89.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Sub-Total: $1481.00


Then either use stock cooling or an aftermarket kit that will work in that case and motherboard, or toss in a Corsair or Antec Liquid Cooling kit and a couple Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1400RPM or higher 120mm fans on the kit.

If price is not a factor, then why bother reusing the old case that might be more restrictive and limited in options, functions and performance?


That Bit Fenix Mini ITX Case above is small enough to fit in those dimensions you listed, plus it has enough room to stuff in the largest Video cards on the market right now.


I would of opted for a Geforce GTX 660 Ti instead, for a bit less in cost, but their not out yet, supposedly sometime this month is the release on them.

Thanks a Million for your time & effort. Will give it a go at putting it together.

Jason

[SGT Tagget]

Hi the "Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3" says it's 1.5V for motherboards using AMD, but isn't the "ASRock Z77E-ITX Mini ITX Motherboard" designed for Intel?

Jason

[ShyguyXPC]

1.5v is the standard voltage spec for DDR3. It WILL Work fine, I'm using a 3 x 2GB Corsair Vengeance kit in my Intel Socket 1366 Core i7 system, runs at 1.5v.

the kit is guaranteed to run at 1.5v at 1600MHz with out the need for bumping the voltage to OC it to 1600. Otherwise it runs at 1.5v at 1600 and below speeds.

don't know why it states AMD, unless there's some sort of voltage limit differences between AMD and Intel, but considering many AMD systems can run 1866 and 2133MHz Kits with ease, especially those with the AMD Llanos APU's with the embedded Radeon 6400/6500 GPU's in the chips, I wouldn't think it would be a issue at all.

the kit selected in the list is the ones with the standard height heatsink, the ones I have have the taller heatsink on them, mainly because I have a Corsair H60 liquid cooling kit installed, so I don't have an issue with the heatsink fins being blocked by a standard oversized Air cooler, thats why I selected the lower height kit instead, in case you were to install an aftermarket cooler in that system that will fit, because Intel's standard design for these Mini ITX boards puts the CPU socket so close to the video card, it will limit the orientation to mount larger heatsinks, in which case, most will have to hang over the RAM slots.

[SGT Tagget]

Hi Shyguy,
Not sure if my purposed setup will be able to handle GTX 680 or GTX 690. Is it a data transfer issue or a cooling issue?

Jason

[ShyguyXPC]

Both. The cpu you have will choke even a $150 orange GPU.

I uses to Run that dame cpu 5 years ago or more. And it slightly bottlenecked a GeForce 8800gts 320 mb card.

[ShyguyXPC]

damn phones autocorrect isn't working right anymore, so a few typo's above.


Yes, your CPU and system would choke those cards, SEVERELY, you'd never get the full benefit of them with your current system, it'd be a waste of money.

The current $100-150 range cards would even be choked some on that system with that CPU.

to add insult to injury so to speak, the old PCIe bus would hamper those cards as well.

So you'd need to get something much newer to run one of those 680's at least, the 690 is just Dual 680's on a single card.

You'd probably need a Good Core i5 Dual Core at 3+GHz or better to use that card decently and at least have a board with PCIE 2.0 support.

though you'd probably want a Core i5 Quad core or AMD Quad or better with that high end hardware.

[SGT Tagget]

ASRock Z77E-ITX Mini ITX Motherboard [Z77E-ITX] - $169.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel Core i5 3570K [BX80637I53570K] - $235.00 : PC Case Gear

Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 [CML8GX3M2A1600C9] - $59.00 : PC Case Gear

BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX Case White [PRODIGY-WH] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB [02G-P4-2670-KR] - $479.00 : PC Case Gear

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM [GFC-02050-MS] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM [GH24NS90] - $22.00 : PC Case Gear

Antec High Current Gamer 620W Modular HCG-620M [HCG-620M] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $89.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Sub-Total: $1481.00


Then either use stock cooling or an aftermarket kit that will work in that case and motherboard, or toss in a Corsair or Antec Liquid Cooling kit and a couple Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1400RPM or higher 120mm fans on the kit.

If price is not a factor, then why bother reusing the old case that might be more restrictive and limited in options, functions and performance?


That Bit Fenix Mini ITX Case above is small enough to fit in those dimensions you listed, plus it has enough room to stuff in the largest Video cards on the market right now.


I would of opted for a Geforce GTX 660 Ti instead, for a bit less in cost, but their not out yet, supposedly sometime this month is the release on them.

The above setup you suggested was the one I'm talking about, not the crappy one I currently have, but after looking at the prices of the GTX 680~GTX 690, I can see why you suggested the GTX 670. I will wait for the GTX 660 Ti.

Thanks again
Jason

[SGT Tagget]

ASRock Z77E-ITX Mini ITX Motherboard [Z77E-ITX] - $169.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel Core i5 3570K [BX80637I53570K] - $235.00 : PC Case Gear

Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 [CML8GX3M2A1600C9] - $59.00 : PC Case Gear

BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX Case White [PRODIGY-WH] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB [02G-P4-2670-KR] - $479.00 : PC Case Gear

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM [GFC-02050-MS] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM [GH24NS90] - $22.00 : PC Case Gear

Antec High Current Gamer 620W Modular HCG-620M [HCG-620M] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $89.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Sub-Total: $1481.00


Then either use stock cooling or an aftermarket kit that will work in that case and motherboard, or toss in a Corsair or Antec Liquid Cooling kit and a couple Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1400RPM or higher 120mm fans on the kit.

If price is not a factor, then why bother reusing the old case that might be more restrictive and limited in options, functions and performance?


That Bit Fenix Mini ITX Case above is small enough to fit in those dimensions you listed, plus it has enough room to stuff in the largest Video cards on the market right now.


I would of opted for a Geforce GTX 660 Ti instead, for a bit less in cost, but their not out yet, supposedly sometime this month is the release on
them.

Hi!
Don't know what liquid/cooling kit to pick from(numbers & codes are foreign to me) to suit the above parts. I looked into 'PC Case Gear' and don't know which one to pick from or even if I need it. If the case comes with 120mm fan why should I or how do I know I need a 140mm fan and for that matter a liquid cooling kit.

[SGT Tagget]

ASRock Z77E-ITX Mini ITX Motherboard [Z77E-ITX] - $169.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel Core i5 3570K [BX80637I53570K] - $235.00 : PC Case Gear

Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 [CML8GX3M2A1600C9] - $59.00 : PC Case Gear

BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX Case White [PRODIGY-WH] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB [02G-P4-2670-KR] - $479.00 : PC Case Gear

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM [GFC-02050-MS] - $99.00 : PC Case Gear

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM [GH24NS90] - $22.00 : PC Case Gear

Antec High Current Gamer 620W Modular HCG-620M [HCG-620M] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $89.00 : PC Case Gear

Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear

Sub-Total: $1481.00


Then either use stock cooling or an aftermarket kit that will work in that case and motherboard, or toss in a Corsair or Antec Liquid Cooling kit and a couple Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1400RPM or higher 120mm fans on the kit.

If price is not a factor, then why bother reusing the old case that might be more restrictive and limited in options, functions and performance?


That Bit Fenix Mini ITX Case above is small enough to fit in those dimensions you listed, plus it has enough room to stuff in the largest Video cards on the market right now.


I would of opted for a Geforce GTX 660 Ti instead, for a bit less in cost, but their not out yet, supposedly sometime this month is the release on them.

Is; Intel 330 Series 120GB SSD [SSDSC2CT120A3K5] - $115.00 : PC Case Gear
an internal HHD. If so why do I need; Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003 [ST1000DM003] - $89.00 : PC Case Gear

Thanks Jason

[ShyguyXPC]

Seriously?

... The Intel 330 Series is an SSD, SOLID STATE DRIVE, its FAST, and 120GB does not go far once you installed the OS and some software... add to that you DO NOT want Windows Swap file installed on the SSD, unless you want to wear out the drive prematurely (Frequent read/writes will eventually kill the drive, just like a USB Flash Drive or Flash Media card, standard rotational drives are still better with this. For this reason alone, its why you never Defragment a SSD, they have built in functions that speed things up and never need to defrag them.


the 120GB is for the OS, Intel's Smart Response Technology (which can use up to 40GB of SSD Space for a Cache for standard drives to speed up their access and load times), and for some other frequent use Apps.

the 1TB is for everything else, including Windows Virtual Memory/Swap file, and what not.

An SSD is optional, not required, but you will want the regular Drive at the least.