Celeron 256 cache-on-die Vs. Pentium3 256 cache-on-die: What's the Difference

[MegalosSkylaki]

--except the price ?

Celeron come in 128k L-2 and 256k versions (cache-on-die).

Pentium3 comes in a slower 512k L-2 {but more expensive} and a 256k faster (and cheaper) on-die.

I am looking at the P3's and they seem expensive. OEM Ok. Have HSF's.

Now the 256 Celerons are reasonable --$80 for a 1.3 Ghz Retail.

Ordered a Chaintech Mobo with VIA Pro 266 chipset and DDR memory for $30 Retail. Can be OC'd to 177 Mhz or so in SW.

Perhaps impulsive but don't want to buy any more SDRAM if not DDR. Want good stable non-gaming machine that can multitask and is fast on the draw.

So what is the difference in anything or everything between the 256k Celeron and the 256k P3 ?

How does that translate into real-world happiness?

DOOOOOG

[Tomteriffic]

D G,

The biggest difference these days is that the Celerons of today run at 100 Mhz Front Side Bus, the P3-'s at 133. There's been a lot of evolution in both of those processors over time, but, as it stands today, that's the difference, for all practical purposes.

[NDC]

I could be wrong on this, but the L2 cache interleave was 4-way on the P3 full speed 256KB cache vs. Celeron's full speed 128KB which was 2-way interleave. I'm not sure about the new Celeron chips though... You may want to do some searching...

[Inanis]

As well as running on a faster 133MHZ bus, the Pentium 3 has more integer and floating point pipelines, thus being able to process more data per clock cycle than the Celeron.

[MegalosSkylaki]

I was on the Intel site this morning. Ran out of time and patience.

I'll have to check the architecture of the 256k Celeron.

Would I am driving at am concerned with is that a a lot of dopey stuff gets released --because "the public wants it ". Didn't Intel buils a P3 with RRIMM some time ago?

Now if the DDR memory (1700 , 2100) needs a "real" Pentium III to realize its potential, and they are expensive suckers, then the project is doomed to higher cost regardless of a $30 Mobo.

If I go with a hi-end Celeron,what am I giving up ?

Am I giving up the advantage --except for warehousing them on a usable machine--of DDR memory? Who knows what memory will be in use two years from now.

Figure anything (e.g. DDR Memory) should "earn" its way N-o-w. If it won't with a Celeron--then maybe I'm forced to shell out for a Pentium 3. It's a practical problem as well as theoretical.

So let me tweak the question a bit: will a Celeron 256k (or 128k) be able to "keep up" with the DDR 2100 ?

Or will these just be one of those dopey mismatches the industry sometimes pulls because people don't know better or bother to ask ?

My understanding is that DDR needs a certain environment to exhibet performance benefits over SDRAM. I am wondering if even a hi-end Celeron "takes away" from a P3 what it needs to give it that .

ThanX, DOOOOOG

[Rhino]

The 256k Celeron is based off the Tualitin core, just like teh Tualitin P3s. If the P3 you are looking at is .18 micron process, then it is the Coppermine core, which in that case, I would probably go with the Celeron. If the P3 is also 1.3 Ghz, then it must be a Tualitin. It's a hard choice. Be sure the mobo supports Tualitin cores. I was unaware of DDR memory chipsets for Socket 370.

I would estimate a 1.3 Celeron to be slightly slower than a 1.3 Duron. I ran a 1.0 Duron at 1.2 for a while, at 133 FSB, with DDR memory. It ran great, but I upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+. I base these figures off benchmarks I remember, so I might not be totally accurate, and the fastest Intel cpu I own is a 66 mhz.

[AuraEdge]

The celeron up to 1.3Ghz is identical to the Pentium 3 Tualatin EXCEPT for the FSB, which is 100Mhz instead of 133Mhz.
This includes the associativity of the L2 Cache, which I think was 4-way associative on the old Coppermine-128 Celerons, and was 8-way on the Coppermine Pentium3's and the Tualatin Pentium3's. The L2 on the Tualatin Celerons run the full 8-way associative.

Here a link comparing the two - Celeron 1.3 vs. Duron 1.3

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020121/index.html

Duron wins out in majority of tests, but its worth noting that the Celeron system is utilizing SDR SDRAM, while the Duron system is using DDR SDRAM, which may count for some of the difference.

There would be little point in using DDR even with a full pentium 3 with it's 133Mhz bus. with 100Mhz its even more pointless. The bus isnt wide enough in either case to well utilize 200Mhz/266Mhz (PC1600/PC2100) DDR SDRAM.

EDIT - Sorry I didnt realize you already bought the board and DDR SDRAM...I hope I didnt sound too brash.

EDIT2 - And as for the other issue - Intel never released a chipset for the Pentium3/Celeron that used DDR SDRAM. Thier all from Via/Sis/Ali. Seems they know it was kinda pointless, but the other manufacturers went and brought them out anyways, probably because they already had the memory DDR archtecture all done for Athlon boards, so they figured why the heck not. If you hadnt bought that board already, I would have either advised you to save a few bucks to buy a SDR SDRAM board instead, or to just go with the fast speed Duron if you were dead set on using DDR SDRAM, since you will see the difference more readily on the Duron (Esp. on a Via KT266a chipset).

[MegalosSkylaki]

Was rather impulsive to add the $30 Chaintech 6VJD to an order fro www.PcBuyerClub.com [ Click on Computer>Motherboard>Via Pro 266 Chipset for 6VJD] as I said myself [above] DDR requires certain envirinment to derive performance benefits from DDR".

But didn't want to buy SDR any more and I liked the expandability AGP 4X, 5 X PCI, CNR, AMR of the P3 Mobo. Underestimated cost of older Pentium CPYU though !

Called Chaintech Tech: fastest CPU it supports is Coppermine ! ghz --no Tualitin-- and Celeron 1.1 Ghz.

Fastest DDR is 2100.

Being as DDR cost about as much as SDR --Crucial 2.5CS, 2100, 2.5v, at about $70 for 256Mb--I figure better to get DDR even if not utilized now--than SDR.

Actually against my philosophy which is to buy for NOW as prices drop and who knows what the future will bring in Tech.

So I ordered one of those goofy Combo's P3 and DDR the Industry is known for because "the public wants it"[see above]. YIPES !

Probably could return for a least a credit--will look for cheap Coppermine. A 1 Ghz Retail (hard to find OEM ?) goes for about $140 . In the immortal words of CaddQ, "Egads !"

Wondering if (more expensive) 2700(333Mhz) will run at 2100 default as I would prefer to buy a single 256 Stick and see how it goes.

Otherwise abandon the Project ! ALL TecHIMO's Fault ! I posted about P3 and everybody loved the CPU !

Otherwise put a Celery on it. This is for the Kitchen Computer--DOOGS favorite room--so don't need a KAWABOMBA machine !

$19 400W case with $30 Mobo(Retail). Chaintech Value Pack 2002 SW. Can be Oc'd to 177 Mhz(well, theoretically).

DOOOOG

P.S. Thy also sell a 6VJD2 (OEM) which runs either DDR or SDR for $30 , but figured the worst is that I'd be warehousing DDR memory on a Mobo that can't really use it. Use DDR mem later .

Check out the $16 100% copper Flower Cooler with separate bracket arm and 92 mm fan + rheostat. Will support fans to 120 mm.

And ThanX AuraEdge and everybody--even though it was TecHIMO's fault ( ) that got me into this jam !

[AuraEdge]

See if you can return it for credit - The amount more you would be paying for a P3 CuMine would probably outweigh the cheap price of the board.

If you can, get you a Duron. You know you want one. 1Ghz AND board for less than 90 bucks these days.

Lets just call that constructive....persuasion. I have an old Asus CUBX board sittin around in my house, and I cant find a use for it. I could pop a coppermine in it, but that would be a waste of money to buy a coppermine P3 just because I have the board handy, since thier still relatively expensive.

Not sure what (if anything) you have against AMD, since you seem to stay away from talking about considering the Duron as a viable solution, but if your looking for a cheap, mid-high performance solution, you cant beat the Duron.

[Tomteriffic]

D G!!

Sorry if anybody misniformed you, I didn't mean to, honest. But they did change cores recently and it frustrates me because I hace an ASUS CUSL2 with tops out at one gig and won't support the Tulatin core.

If you decide to go the AMD route, there's a lotta folks around here who have put together some good systems fer cheap that are running UD and Eccp ato 100% CPU usage for days on end, and stable, too. Holler if you decide to go that route, lotta good suggestions.

F'rinstance, I know of one 1 gig Duron system (that, unfortunately doesn't use DDR) but it can be had as a kit for $180, just add your RAM and drives. I used this basic setup and added an XP-1800+ and it's wah-hoo fast and stable running UD.