Weird Socket, Computer Handyman lies

[kajar9]

This is my old computer which i upgraded it's CPU to make it a game server and while upgrading, odd things happened.

Well, back in 2002-2004 We had this computer, it was mid+ (near high end machine then)
The handyman who put the parts together told, that the processor is integrated, and we believed. Later, few years later, i found out that it wasn't integrated, but an Socket A AthlonXP 1900+ (i knew the processor type, but didn't check if it's integrated or not until then). It was weird that the handyman lied about the processor.

Well now i got my hands on AthlonXP 3200+ and the guy i bought it from helped me to install it. We noticed that the CPU heater was set on the wrong way (more difficult to open). So we placed the new CPU in, hooked all up. booted. few seconds after hitting start button, the machine powered off, we tried alot of things (changing the FSB clock (from the small swithces) manually and more) so finally after not figuring out what's wrong, we put the old 1900+ back in, SAME PROBLEM. OH FUCK! so we fiddled around some more, then i was just about to rage, and we placed the cooling back on the "wrong way" and voila, it booted all worked. Tried the same thing with 3200+, and it did too.

I guess that's the reason the handyman lied back then. It is most likely a connection problem on the socket. and if we placed the cooler on the wrong way, it must have applied pressure, and made the connection possible.

So... never trust, always check. I was 10 or so, and i didn't know, it was a first computer which was good for gaming.
But I'm just happy i got it working again, because the server now brings in pretty good dough. (not a gaming server as planned before)

[osprey4]

Hi Kajar9,

Welcome to TechIMO.

That's an interesting story (if true). I'm just wondering if you could clarify your point.

[ShyguyXPC]

Um, ok...

as to the cooler being on wrong, you can't really mount a Socket A cooler on wrong (some coolers were notched to rest against the higher edge of the Socket though, but for most Stock design coolers its impossible), if its using the standard clips, its going to apply the same amount of pressure no matter which way its on.

as to the Handyman lying, you'd think one would take it into their own hands of researching and learning the hardware on their own, how it works, what works with it, etc, after being lied to like that.

Its also possible the Handyman was referring to an Integrated Graphics chip on the motherboard back then, and confused the two, Don't really know of Too many Athlon XP's that were integrated back then, rare to find them, even years down the road it was rare, usually some low end Duron or Sempron or something.

When you mentioned this: "We noticed that the CPU heater was set on the wrong way (more difficult to open)."

Um, the CPU heater? I think you mean Cooler, or Heatsink... and even then, it doesn't "open", it unclips or if using mounting holes through the motherboard, unscrews, doesn't "open".

When your referring to a component near the CPU like that and mention open, most of us are likely to assume you mean the CPU sockets Zero Insertion Force Lever to secure the CPU into the socket and lock it in place.

IF Thats what you meant, then there is no way you were able to mount the CPU in there wrong, with out causing some significant damage to the Pins on the CPU.

it only mounts in the socket one way.

What it sounds like, is possibly the CPU Heatsink mounted to the CPU socket one way, with enough force to make contact between it and the CPU core, and transfer the heat to the Cooler and not cause it to shut down on start up.

This has nothing to do with contact on the socket, but contact on the Cooler base to the CPU core, to transfer heat to the heatsink and prevent CPU from Overheating, which will cause it to shut down immediately on many boards.

Mounting the heatsink the other way, probably left a bit of a small gap between the heatsink and CPU core, just enough to cause it to overheat, and shut down.


Also I hope after you guys removed the CPU Cooler that you cleaned off the old Thermal paste and applied new stuff, otherwise your going to run into more heat related problems down the road possibly.


Also could benefit from brushing up on your Hardware knowledge, wordings, and terminology (CPU Heater for example, and whether your talking about the Heatsink, CPU, CPU Socket, etc)

after 6-8 years with this PC, and you still intend to use it, might be beneficial to later diagnose problems and help others help you.

[kajar9]

Hi Kajar9,

Welcome to TechIMO.

That's an interesting story (if true). I'm just wondering if you could clarify your point.

It's True story, actually i wanted to just bring out my story. And he must have lied to cover up the little faulty Socket.
Although as i stated before i was like 10, and really didn't care about the insides of the machine back then.

Yeah, and i noticed too, that i say'd CPU Heater LOL XD

By the wrong way, i mean the small latch, where you can put in a screwdriver and pull the locking mechanism open. it was facing the PSU, and was pretty much impossible to access. So i had to jam the screwdriver between the 3 plastic holders and the metal holder itself, possibly damaging the motherboard, which i almost did.

And the handyman clearly stated, that the processor is integrated. Video card was not mentioned.

We didn't damage the pin,s we had no problem placing the cpu into the socket, the weird thing is, the only thing that mattered (made it work) was the right placement of the cooler.

We put just the right amount of thermal grease, and it ONLY worked when we placed the Cooler on "the wrong way".

I know the terminology, because i am currently studying IT.
I was quite tired last night (11pm for me) when i wrote it

And the CPU heater was really a LOL mistake

I have built my own custom machine, so i am not brand new to computer hardware, although i have a lot of material yet to cover.

[RicheemxX]

The orientation of the retaining clips doesn't mean it was on the wrong way! Most heatsinks I've dealt with allow you to remove the clips and flip the around to be used the other way if need be. Also keep in min that most people pull their motherboards out when swapping hs/fan and cpu's so the psu being in the way might only be an issue when the board is in the case.

As Shy said there really is no way to mount a Socket A cooler on wrong at least not in the sense that it would make the chip not work. So I really doubt you are talking about a faulty socket here. As he also said its possible when you flipped it you weren't getting a good enough connection to the surface of the chip and it was instantly overheating and shutting down. But heck I've installed the notched coolers on backwards several times and never had an issue with PCs booting. It was until burn in that I noticed temps were a little higher than normal.

[kajar9]

The orientation of the retaining clips doesn't mean it was on the wrong way

I am just refering it as the "wrong way" i know it should work in both directions. But in my case it just didn't.

most people pull their motherboards out when swapping hs/fan and cpu's

I really don't have time to unplug and take out the motherboard when i have to change something on it, the less i move it,the less chance of failure.

I don't know why it works one way, and doesn't the other. It may be, because i have old clips, what may pressure some spot more than the other.

And i am sure the reason of shut down wasn't heat.
If it finally worked again, i checked the temps on the CPU it was 40C' or less (48 C' max under full load)

[ShyguyXPC]

Actually technically speaking the clip was by the PSU, then it was on the right way, but as has been mentioned can be on both ways.

But in regards to your latest reply, did you not read what I had typed before?

"I don't know why it works one way, and doesn't the other. It may be, because i have old clips, what may pressure some spot more than the other.

And i am sure the reason of shut down wasn't heat.
If it finally worked again, i checked the temps on the CPU it was 40C' or less (48 C' max under full load)"

Um, how do you know? It only takes seconds for a CPU to reach its max sustainable operating temperature even when idle booting up the PC... and Athlon XP's also Lack the Heat Cap that Pentium 4's of the era had as well, so even greater chance of heating up faster with out a proper thermal transference to the heatsink and cooling mechanism.

You were only able to test the Temp once it was running, and if you were running the PC, then it must be transferring the heat properly or just enough to allow it to run

What it sounds like, is possibly the CPU Heatsink mounted to the CPU socket one way, with enough force to make contact between it and the CPU core, and transfer the heat to the Cooler and not cause it to shut down on start up.

This has nothing to do with contact on the socket, but contact on the Cooler base to the CPU core, to transfer heat to the heatsink and prevent CPU from Overheating, which will cause it to shut down immediately on many boards.

Mounting the heatsink the other way, probably left a bit of a small gap between the heatsink and CPU core, just enough to cause it to overheat, and shut down.

One thing I'd also look into for Socket A CPU's, and I've found these do help sometimes, especially if you are having a tough time mounting the heatsink applying extra force, is using a Copper Shim for Socket A CPU's, helps prevent crushing the Core when putting on the heatsink, also allows for a more even "balance" of the Cooler on the CPU, which the little rubber/felt pads on the corners are supposed to help with, but not always, the Shim helps 360 degrees around the socket, not just the corners.

as to the cooler being tight to mount on, I have encountered that once as well, well actually twice, one time breaking the clip to the socket, requiring a Screw in mounting system Cooler for that board, and actually I think this was on an Intel Socket 370 board, similar Mounting system as Socket A... the other time, the screw driver slipped and scratched the circuitry on the board, though I never did fire up that Board again to test, as it had bad capacitors, bulging and leaking.

the next time I encountered that problem of a tight fit, I just removed the Power supply from the case, mounted the cooler, which still took awhile, then fit the PSU back in, and was done.