Cell phone tracking

[dickbe]

I saw an article on the latest claim by the new administration (Obama) that people have no expectation of privacy as to their whereabouts (as traced by tracking a cell phone). Interesting. I looked up some things about this and found that FCC required all phones made after 1/1/05 to have GPS capability, even if it was not available to the user (not supported on the user's network). The feature can be activated by the user, or be remotely activated without the knowlege of the user. GPS chips are built into the phone and rely on the phone (wether on or off) to provide power. Newer (date?) phones have a RFID chip about 1/4 the size of a postage stamp attached in the case that does not need any power from the phone to be "ping-d", and give a geographic location as is done in package shipping right now. Is there a way to defeat this? Cell phone jammers won't work, as they only prevent tracking by triangulation of the cell emissions themselves. Removing the battery will only defeat the GPS feature.

[GroundZero3]

Link to the article?

[Nude_Lewd_Man]

My guess is that they're referring to something along the lines of this:
Feds push for tracking cell phones | Politics and Law - CNET News

In that case, the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts.

[angelayoung]

I like your post. Can you give me more details abut the article you have red about the newest mobile tracking device? thanks

[Nude_Lewd_Man]

Hi angelayoung and WELCOME TO TECHIMO - from the Folding@Home Team [#111]...!

I linked to the only thing I read about this subject... With me being in the Land Of Eng, this topic makes almost zero difference to me...

[Steve R Jones]

dickbe - what kind of drugs do you sell? Or what are you doing that you don't want the Federal Goverment to know about?

Have you considered not carring a phone?

[no1_vern]

Hi dickbe Welcome to TechIMO.

The police were able to track cell phones for several years as long as they get a court order until 2005(The courts ruled in 2005 that law enforcement doesn't need to show probable cause to obtain your physical location via the cell phone grid. ). It used to be they needed a court order to listen to your Cell phone - even when the cell phone was turned off(The FBI can listen to conversations on your cell phone...) - that also changed 2006.

I know its a bit off topic but I have to address the "I am innocent" so the police will always find me innocent attitude:
Them "Its Chocolate", Police "Its HASHISH!"
MINTS?? Those aren't mints, its Crack Cocaine! (Yes, a mans life in tatters because a policeman testified the mints were cocaine)

Some people believe that our government is NEVER WRONG, that it isnt run by humans who can and will use that power for their own gains. Some people believe the government is NEVER RIGHT. The truth is somewhere in-between.

[Steve R Jones]

And is all else fails: Prozac

[MTAtech]

This is a legitimate privacy case. (BTW, this topic belongs in the debate area.)

This was today's NY Times Editorial, Cellphones and Privacy. I think the gov't should need a warrant to track a cell phone. I consider "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" applies to the data in a cell phone.

Until then, turn of your phone when you don't want to be tracked or use disposable phones.

[EXreaction]

Some of the stuff linked showed state courts allowing it, but has the supreme court ever taken the issue up?

[Nude_Lewd_Man]

MTAtech, IDK if you read the link I posted, but (IIRC) it stated that the handset can be traced/tracked even while it is powered off...

I seem to remember hearing something similar about the police being able to 'listen in' on a landline - even if the phone was on the hook..........

[Steve R Jones]

Its been 2 to 3 years...But there was an article about Retailers being able to get a device that could detect cell phones near by and send them voice mails or text messages..."Hey we're having a SALE today...You're only 150 feet away - stop on by."

But maybe the idea got shot down.

[MTAtech]

MTAtech, IDK if you read the link I posted, but (IIRC) it stated that the handset can be traced/tracked even while it is powered off...

I seem to remember hearing something similar about the police being able to 'listen in' on a landline - even if the phone was on the hook..........

I just don't believe that it can send a signal with no power.

[no1_vern]

Absence is almost as good as presence when determining guilt.

A person was convicted of his girlfriends' murder because his, and his girlfriends cellphones both disappeared from the grid(the batteries were removed) within minutes of each other on the night she was murdered.

[EXreaction]

If the verdict wasn't challenged all the way to the supreme court my guess is the person was guilty or didn't have a clue to what constitutional rights he had.

[Nude_Lewd_Man]

MTAtech, I don't actually know, but it could be something along the lines of how a flash works on a camera (not so sure about the new ones, but certainly those available about 10-20 years ago) where the batteries could be removed and still take a pic with the flash, as the charge was built up after the previous 'flashed' shot was taken and then it is stored (in a capacitor??) inside - enabling you to not need to wait when you wanted to take a 'snap' if it required the flash......

But, like I said, I don't actually know (or care too much) about this...

[MTAtech]

MTAtech, I don't actually know, but it could be something along the lines of how a flash works on a camera (not so sure about the new ones, but certainly those available about 10-20 years ago) where the batteries could be removed and still take a pic with the flash, as the charge was built up after the previous 'flashed' shot was taken and then it is stored (in a capacitor??) inside - enabling you to not need to wait when you wanted to take a 'snap' if it required the flash......

But, like I said, I don't actually know (or care too much) about this...

Those worked by having the battery charge a capacitor, so to build up a large current to make a bright flash. I can't see having a capacitor in such a tiny device.

[Nude_Lewd_Man]

That may be true, but considering that you don't need such a powerful surge to get the flash to illuminate schtuffs, and it may only need to send a single pulse out every X seconds/minutes...

If the phone is on (and/or on charge) then the power supply for the "heartbeat" can be charged or topped up, and just power the 'GPS' "heartbeat" 'as is', and when the phone isn't turned on, it can still continue to 'ping' out to who/whatever it may or may not be set to...

[MTAtech]

I don't put anything past electronic genuses but it just seems that a small capacitor wouldn't have enough capacity to regularly do that.

[EXreaction]

Just because the phone looks off doesn't mean it is, ever hear of standby modes?

As for the whole recording what you are saying when the phone is off or even on but not in a call, that's just plain silly as it would be extremely obvious with how the battery would last as long as if you were to be in a conversation the entire time as it would last if you had it turned off.