Thread: Smart Grid, Dumb Idea.
April 20th, 2012, 07:22 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Smart Grid, Dumb Idea.
I have been reading about how the smart grid and smart meters will be incredibly vulnerable to hacking and disruption, Yet they march on. Outside of a bunch of bad guys bringing down the grid, or causing a nuke plant to sieze up and blow, there are serious privacy issues on the table. Some are simple, like some government drone will know you use your General Electric toaster every day at 6:30am... big deal. I guess if it detects the toaster has burned out, you'll get a lot of e-mail offers to buy the latest model. I kinda get that. But other things I find disturbing and outright creepy. Visio is coming out with a TV that has a camera and microphone built in that will be able to use facial recognition to determine who is in the room, and channel advertising to those persons based on products they already buy. Using high frequencey digital line multiplexing, it is possible that the TV could be controlled remotely and used to gather video and audio over the electric grid. So you could be spied on, without your consent far beyond gatering marketing data. I was wondering if anyone knew if an isolation transformer the size of your service or even multiple smaller isolation transformers on each major appliance with a capacitor bank fitted on the input or output side would effectively filter out the communications if they were multiplexed over the grid.
April 20th, 2012, 10:03 PM #2
Know what I think about the "smart grid": HORSE SHIT!!!!
April 20th, 2012, 11:41 PM #3
Yea, that's the answer, just cower in terror.
I think America, and American, have the knowledge, and the guts.
But what do I know, I only worked in the power gen industry, for33 years.Hard Sayin Not Knowin
April 21st, 2012, 05:58 AM #4
Originally Posted by Taxmancometh
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
AN INVASION OF PRIVACY for one! (Especially if someone has those "SMART" applicances they can control)
I think all this new "Smart" stuff is pure garbage........
April 21st, 2012, 10:20 AM #5
Sounds like someone that knows nothing about the power grid.
It is basically for meters, not appliances.
The power grid is one of the hardest things to control, and it is done by catch up, and guess work, everyday.
The problem is, the generators, have to put out,exactly the same power, as their customers are using.
You can predict that at 6AM, every body is getting up, and turning stuff on, so you can start raising the load, on the generator, running in supervisory. (controlled from the regional distribution control center, not the power plant)It's already online
The control center operators are constantly watching the meters, for a drop or raise in demand, and constantly raise and lower the units under their control, to maintain a constant voltage.
(They could be 100s of miles from the unit they are controlling the load on.
Nukes, are never run remotely, and are always under the control, of the local operator.)
This means they are always a little behind the curve.
When they do see a change, it takes several minutes, to raise or lower the output on the generators, further delaying, the response.
This is why we have dirty power almost all the time.
If we had smart meters, as soon as you turn on your electric heat, the generators, would pick up the load instantly,
This alone would save millions in fuel, because it would lower instantly, and not waste fuel, by over volting the system, for several minutes, when demand drops.(making dirty power)
The generators, in supervisory, are the most expensive to run, so the stakes are even higher.
The cheapest to run, nukes, hydros, coal fired units and combined cycle gas turbines, run full load all the time, and the expensive ones, oil, go up and down with demand 24/7
Then there are the devices, that would not get destroyed by dirty power. ( not the problem it used to be, as they design electrical devices, for dirty power, now.)
One of my customers, had an electric ark furnace, and had to call the electric dispatch, to start it.
Dispatch and the foundry would have to coordinate the raising and lower, of several generators, at the same time, to prevent browning out the whole Boston area.
The way we control power now, is the same way Tesla designed it in the 1800s.
I think it is time to move to the 21st century
Even a portable generator, can follow load instantly, but not the grid.
Last edited by stroyal; April 21st, 2012 at 03:39 PM.Hard Sayin Not Knowin
May 1st, 2012, 05:29 AM #6
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
hi5 to Dude111. totally agree.
May 2nd, 2012, 07:10 PM #7
Dude's afraid of electricity, but happily works on his computer.
May 2nd, 2012, 08:16 PM #8
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