Unhappy new PC

**kevfirth** · June 19th, 2003, 09:42 PM

Hi, I wonder if anyone can shed some light on my probs here please...

I have a new system that is comprised of:
P4 2.8GHz
Gigabyte 8KNXP motherboard
1Gig PC3200 RAM (2x 512Mb)
DVD-Rom drive
CD/RW drive
CD drive

Having put this lot together, I tried to use a blank 40Gb HD from my previous setup...but I got the error msg "NSTDL missing".
I tried re-ordering the boot-up sequence in the BIOS so CD was before HD, but the system won't boot from my win xp CD

.

This having failed, I tried to completely reformat the HD with a utility it came with when it was new. This seemed to work, and I managed to reformat it with both Win95 and Win98 boot files on separate occasions. (first used Win95 then to Win98 because I found out Win95 boot files dont include CD support)

My thoughts then were that when I booted with a Win 98 disk, I could install XP since I had access to the CD drive. No. The setup.exe file on the XP cd cannot be run in a DOS environment!! So I decided to install an earlier OS, and then run the XP setup from there to upgrade it.

First I tried Win95, and it seemed to install ok. But when I booted it crashed and said there wasnt enough memory to boot Win95. So I started from scratch and went through the same process, only with Win98 this time. Again, it seemed to install ok, but on re-booting, it crashed and said there'd been a stack error.

These problems worry me slightly, as I didn't think they should have occurred (I have not tried to overclock or otherwise tweak any of the components and all the cooling equipment, fans etc are working).

Are there any rational explanations as to why my win95 and win98 installations didnt work?

Why won't my new system boot from the Win XP cd?

Can anyone help explain what I might be able to do to make this damned thing work!?!?!?!

Would everything just be a whole lot easier if I bought a new virgin HD?

Thanks
K

**DoctorReno** · June 19th, 2003, 10:02 PM

This should be resolvable. First, If you have it set to boot the CD before the HD, do you have the XP CD in the CD drive when you turn the machine on?

There are a couple reasons or uses for the Win98 startup/bootdisk but you really want to put it away... it's not needed for installing XP. Just a FYI you can run the setup from DOS but the command is Winnt.exe not setup.exe. Please don't use this because it will give you grief and it's SLOOOOOOOWWWW unless you also first run the DOS utility Speeddisk and then it's still not as fast as using the CD or XP floppy bootdisks.

If for some reason you just can't get XP to boot from CD you can go to Bootdisk.com and there download a 6 floppy disk set of XP bootdisks. You have to pick the version appropriate for your XP ie. Home or Pro and SP1 or not.

The #1 XP boot floppy will boot the machine install its files and then ask for the next disk etc etc until the CD is needed. From there the install will be exactly as if you had booted from CD. The CD is just much faster and less hastle as you do not have to mess with 6 slow floppies.

Worst case scenario, but I usually do it is, I zero fill format the HD before I install an OS. This way the drive is wiped of everything and is essentially "Raw" or as close as you can get to a new drive out of the box.

Most people mistakenly think that formatting a drive erases all the data on it.... it does NOT. Only something like a zero fill format will get rid of the data. It also is one of the only ways to deal with tough boot sector viruses and some hidden partitions.

**Brangwen** · June 19th, 2003, 10:07 PM

kevfirth:

Are you certain your memory settings are set properly? You might be surprised how many Windoze crashes occur because the settings in BIOS are off. Also, uncable all but one of those CDroms until you get this computer running. May as well get rid of some variables.

Good luck, don't give up ... the fix is likely right in front of you.

"Welcome to TechIMO!"

Brangwen

**kevfirth** · June 19th, 2003, 10:15 PM

Thanks for those comments so quick...
What do I need to do to do a zero fill format please??? (never heard of that before!)
Also, what kind of memory settings should I be using do you think? I don't want to play around with this and mess it up any more!! I will disconnect the drives...good idea-thanks

Although the bootdisk.com tip sounds the easiest and most suitable for an only slightly techie person like me!!!

**DoctorReno** · June 19th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Excuse me I ment the DOS utility SmartDisk. If you feel you would like to try a zero fill format most of the major HD mfg's offer utilities for setting up their drives. Some incorrectly call it a low level format but it is just a zero fill. Personally I like Seagates DiscWizard Starter Edition found at http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/...s/discwiz.html Download the Create a bootable floppy version. When you run it it will create 2 bootable floppies. When you use this program the zero fill format is found under UTILITIES and will work on ALL brands of HD's just fine. Be sure to select the "Full" zero fill format.

Also something I failed to notice B4. XP can give you problems when installing with more than 1 module of RAM installed. I think you will find many who agree with this. Take one of your sticks out during the install. After successfully installing XP put your additional memory back in and it will recognize and use it correctly.

**kevfirth** · June 19th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Sorry, I forgot to say, yes when I try and boot from the cd, it is in the tray right from the start.

Just as an aside..the IDE devices are set up as HD as master on IDE1, the cd Im trying to boot from as slave on IDE1 and the other 2 optical devices on IDE2...should that make any difference to this problem??

Thanks
K

**DoctorReno** · June 19th, 2003, 10:30 PM

FYI a zero fill format writes zeros over everything on the drive. This effectively removes everything previously on the drive unlike a standard format which only sets the file allocation tables so that the computer thinks all sectors on the drive are are available to be written to. The file allocation tables are akin to say... a table of contents for a book. You can erase the table of contents but the contents of the book remain. It's more complicated but this gets the idea across.

After a zero fill format when you install XP you will see that it sees your drive as "Raw". Essentially, it IS a new drive fresh outta the box that has never been partitioned or formatted.

**kevfirth** · June 19th, 2003, 10:35 PM

Thankyou for you help!
I will try zero-filling the HD, and using the boot disks like you suggested. I have mailed the tech people at Gigabyte also just in case they know of some mb/BIOS quirk that is preventing me booting from cd... I'll post the results of all that here when it's done..It is way early here so I may just go to bed and come back to it after work tomorrow....

Thanks again...

**DoctorReno** · June 19th, 2003, 10:35 PM

I would discourage putting any device other than another HD on the Primary Slave IDE. It is likely to cause a serious performance degredation to your HD. This can be checked later.

For the install at least you will want the CD drive as your Secondary Master IDE.

Once we get XP on and running we can deal with all your optical devices but I highly suspect that one will have to go.

I'm open to others opinions on this.

**DoctorReno** · June 19th, 2003, 10:42 PM

The CD on the same IDE channel as the HD may be the reason it will not boot from CD. Set the CD as master and put it on the end connector on the other IDE ribbon.
You will also want to go into the BIOS and have the BIOS recognize and configure the CD on this new (and correct) IDE location.
I will be curious to see if this affects your being able to boot from CD. And finally, you are doing it correctly to have the CD in the tray and then start the machine. You'd be surprised how many people confuse "boot from" and "auto start". They are not the same.

I'll be back tomorrow and Sat to see if you have any luck. Please post regardless so we know.

**DoctorReno** · June 19th, 2003, 10:47 PM

Try booting from CD once you get it configured correctly on the machine. It's just so much easier than the floppies.

About the floppies, what you download will be "images". Once the image is on your HD you need to click on each of the images and it will instruct you to put in a floppy. It will then create the working floppy. Do this for each of the 6 images.
Hopefully tho the CD will boot for you and you can forgo the floppies.

**kevfirth** · June 19th, 2003, 10:47 PM

Are you saying I'm trying to be too clever by fitting three optical devices????

**Siliconjunkie** · June 19th, 2003, 10:54 PM

Its working around limitations in IDE. Besides, no real need for all 3, since either of the first 2 can be used to read CDs so the regular CD rom is redundant.

**thekingofpain** · June 19th, 2003, 10:56 PM

This *should* be simple---as long as your primary ide's hdd>cd are configured properly while booting from the cd (as you have it set to do so) it should ask you to format (ntfs/fat) and go forward---no need to zero out the hdd prior, no need to mess with [floppys?]---

**kevfirth** · June 19th, 2003, 10:56 PM

ok firstly I just removed the 3rd optical drive so there was just the HD on primary IDE and the CDRW and DVD on secondary.
This made no difference...it said "booting from cd" as it did before and the drive spun up, but then it carried on straight to HD boot and gave the same error msg.....now to try those disks...

**Micro Bean** · June 19th, 2003, 11:06 PM

hmmm Since the Cd was spining in your cd rom that means it was reading it and then you got that message. But alot people forget this part when you are going to install windows Xp and it says boot from cd hit enter while its reads from the CD hit enter then it should start reading all your hardware on your system. Alot of people I know encountered that part and to say So have I after being so fustrated didnt know what to do all it was just to hit enter shesh that was a relief lol

**kevfirth** · June 20th, 2003, 04:11 AM

ok I tried the 'hit enter' tip, but there was no joy to be gained from that. I used the startup floppy disks and that seemed to work fine. After all the floppies had loaded the puter rebooted itself and continued from the xp installation cd. Now it boots into xp from startup without the aid of either the cd or floppies.

I'd still like to know why it wouldn't boot from the cd to start with though!

**kevfirth** · June 20th, 2003, 11:38 AM

Thankyou for all your help, tips and assistance guys.. (..and gals?)

**BeeQuewl** · June 20th, 2003, 12:02 PM

i have had a similar problem when repairing a complete system crash on my friends machine...i finally said screw it (as i did not have time or patience at that moment to mess around with it) and insalled win2k...but i too would like to know the reason behind this

**DoctorReno** · June 20th, 2003, 06:22 PM

We'd all like to know the answer. I've run into it B4 also and had to resort to the floppy solution.

I gotta ask this: is the copy of XP a fresh outta the cellophane or is it one burned as a backup to your legit original? For other reasons unknown burning XP and possibly other MS OS's at higher rates will usually result in errors on the burned disk, one of which is bad boot sectors on the burned CD. Any info on this would be appreciated but it is my experience that you should use only 1x if you want a good backup copy for yourself.